4 ms·

This analogy makes no sense. I often encountered situations where clients wanted to keep photos 'private'. I couldn't use them in my portfolio. To deal with th

This analogy makes no sense. I often encountered situations where clients wanted to keep photos 'private'. I couldn't use them in my portfolio. To deal with that I took my camera and lenses (analogous to a computer) and made some equivalents that allowed me to demonstrate my skill in a similar way (analogous to writing some code in a personal project). Suggesting you should sketch something to show your photo making ability is like writing pseudo code to say you can write python - it's an unrealistic analogy that doesn't happen and has no need to happen. You can very easily use a camera or a computer for a personal project and make very real photographs or write very real code to demonstrate your ability.

mathgeek 10y ago
Think of "the photographs" in the analogy as the code that a full-time developer with a wife, kids, and non-coding hobbies has produced for his/her employer over the last five years. This person may produce a script or a basic website for a portfolio, but those 40+ hours a week spent coding at a full time job is where all of the real problems get solved.
- PuffinBlue 10y ago
  > This person may produce a script or a basic website for a portfolio, but those 40+ hours a week spent coding at a full time job is where all of the real problems get solved. That's it right there. That's the bit that makes the difference. It speaks to an attitude of 'I'm doing it, I don't need to prove it'. It's wrapped up in 'I'm doing it and I'm too busy to prove it because I should have a life and other people should just recognise my ability so I don't have to sacrifice my lifestyle to put the effort in to get the job I want"...but it really comes down to thinking I shouldn't have to show it because I'm doing it. There's no can't show it inherent in your original statement. There's a large dollop of don't want but no can't. You can find ways to prove you ability, to use work you do day to day, to make high quality personal projects or contribute to those that are already running (beauty of programming is it can be easier to collaborate like this and still show your skill). It can be done. Plenty of people in all industries work one job and study, prepare or work towards another all whilst supporting families and trying to have a life. Programmers aren't special snowflakes, they've got to work just as hard at selling themselves as all other people in the creative industries do. That's why I think programmers really need to grasp that they actually are creatives and adopt an attitude that deals with all the burdens that moniker brings with it.
  - oblio 10y ago
    Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos than it is to set up an equivalent software project. More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project.
    - PuffinBlue 10y ago
      > Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Why wouldn't you invest time in it? It's investing in yourself and could get you your next pay rise. It's not wasted time. We're back to the point I made above about putting the effort in. > Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos Sure, as I already said it's not a perfect comparison, it's there to illustrate a point. And I reject your second point very strongly. Even something simple like a single headshot can take hours of planning and setup. Something like a documentary project might take months or even years to complete. Something like a commercial shoot might take a team of 20 a week to complete and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars - how do you get to put that sort of work in your portfolio? Sometimes you work for free, sometimes you create a whole shoot yourself at great cost. You work for it essentially. That's how. And a single photo might be no more the 'whole' than a single file might be the 'whole' programme for instance. Anyway, the exact vagaries of the industry aren't important, it's the assertion that programming is a creative discipline that is important. > More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project. Possibly, but a portfolio isn't trying to sell a product it's selling 'you'. Stuff that goes in the portfolio shows how you do what you do, gives a window on how you work, how you approach a problem, how you solve it. Many photographers will create 'behind the scenes' shoots and videos to show how they work and show clients how they solve problems for instance. These can be independent of the exact example and just because a programming language might change you can still use an older project to show your skill and approach to a particular type of problem. Anyway, I've laboured the point long enough, feel free to grab the last word but I think I've outlined my point well enough to be understood.
Dayshine 10y ago
>made some equivalents that allowed me to demonstrate my skill in a similar way (analogous to writing some code in a personal project). Except that doesn't work in programming. I can't take the core bits and re-release them in my own projects. In fact that's literally what I'm prohibited from doing. While in photography you can make the same photo with different people, in programming you absolutely cannot simply rewrite the same code.
- PuffinBlue 10y ago
  Did you miss the word equivalent in the statement you quoted? That's kind of the key word. OK. Imagine this... You photograph an event at an exclusive venue that you won't get access to again, with a setup you can't replicate (ever), with famous guests you'll never see again and a world famous VIP as the main subject. Oh and to boot, the client wants total confidentiality. No photo use for portfolios whatsoever. Seems just like the restrictions a programmer might face right? An infrastructure you can't replicate, code you can't publish, resources you won't have access too etc etc... This was some years ago now and I've left photography behind but how did I ever get to do that job in the first place? Created stuff myself, off my own back, unpaid and at great time expense that showed I had the level of skill and ability to do it. I chased other photographers, contributed time and talent to their projects and made stuff myself. And when the clients came looking I could show from my prior work and portfolio that I could do what they needed. And what did I do afterwards? Took inspiration from what I saw at this event and made additions to my portfolio that showed I could solve the kind of challenges I faced there, proving to subsequent customers that new skill. I didn't just say 'oh dear, I can't use this so that was a total loss, let's not do anything about it.' I went out and made new stuff that showed equivalent skill, not recreating the photo, proving the skill. Maybe I'm not being clear enough or maybe there's a misunderstanding of what type/level of photography I'm referring to so I'll state it plainly: Photography was just an analogy. The key is you're not taking the original work that you did if it's restricted, the key is creating something that shows equivalent skill. Remember, I already said that as a creative you're selling yourself, not the end product, so you're not trying to recreate the particulars of the exact photo/code but demonstrate you have the skill/ability to create something of equivalent difficulty. Need to prove you can run a big project? Well, run one. Do one yourself or join another. Find a way. Don't throw up a barrier every time something seems difficult or hard. It's meant to be hard. It might take a long time. Deal with it and get it done. That's what I'm saying. People will tell you you're getting taken advantage of and doing too much for too little right up until you're working for some global mega corps running some incredible team, earning massive bucks and all that stuff. They'll keep telling you it until you believe it. Or you can ignore them and just keep going, keep making something to show what you can do and keep chasing the jobs you want with that big backing of proof of your ability that you've got.

mathgeek 10y ago

Think of "the photographs" in the analogy as the code that a full-time developer with a wife, kids, and non-coding hobbies has produced for his/her employer over the last five years. This person may produce a script or a basic website for a portfolio, but those 40+ hours a week spent coding at a full time job is where all of the real problems get solved.

PuffinBlue 10y ago
> This person may produce a script or a basic website for a portfolio, but those 40+ hours a week spent coding at a full time job is where all of the real problems get solved. That's it right there. That's the bit that makes the difference. It speaks to an attitude of 'I'm doing it, I don't need to prove it'. It's wrapped up in 'I'm doing it and I'm too busy to prove it because I should have a life and other people should just recognise my ability so I don't have to sacrifice my lifestyle to put the effort in to get the job I want"...but it really comes down to thinking I shouldn't have to show it because I'm doing it. There's no can't show it inherent in your original statement. There's a large dollop of don't want but no can't. You can find ways to prove you ability, to use work you do day to day, to make high quality personal projects or contribute to those that are already running (beauty of programming is it can be easier to collaborate like this and still show your skill). It can be done. Plenty of people in all industries work one job and study, prepare or work towards another all whilst supporting families and trying to have a life. Programmers aren't special snowflakes, they've got to work just as hard at selling themselves as all other people in the creative industries do. That's why I think programmers really need to grasp that they actually are creatives and adopt an attitude that deals with all the burdens that moniker brings with it.
- oblio 10y ago
  Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos than it is to set up an equivalent software project. More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project.
  - PuffinBlue 10y ago
    > Can you have a decent, up to date, programming portfolio without investing tons of time in it? Why wouldn't you invest time in it? It's investing in yourself and could get you your next pay rise. It's not wasted time. We're back to the point I made above about putting the effort in. > Photography is IMO a flawed comparison since it's much easier and less time consuming to have some nice looking photos Sure, as I already said it's not a perfect comparison, it's there to illustrate a point. And I reject your second point very strongly. Even something simple like a single headshot can take hours of planning and setup. Something like a documentary project might take months or even years to complete. Something like a commercial shoot might take a team of 20 a week to complete and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars - how do you get to put that sort of work in your portfolio? Sometimes you work for free, sometimes you create a whole shoot yourself at great cost. You work for it essentially. That's how. And a single photo might be no more the 'whole' than a single file might be the 'whole' programme for instance. Anyway, the exact vagaries of the industry aren't important, it's the assertion that programming is a creative discipline that is important. > More than that, the photos you took in 2010 are likely to still be relevant in 2016, for the average user. However, for programming, your PHP4 project from 2010 might not cut it in 2016 when you're supposed to join a Scala project. Possibly, but a portfolio isn't trying to sell a product it's selling 'you'. Stuff that goes in the portfolio shows how you do what you do, gives a window on how you work, how you approach a problem, how you solve it. Many photographers will create 'behind the scenes' shoots and videos to show how they work and show clients how they solve problems for instance. These can be independent of the exact example and just because a programming language might change you can still use an older project to show your skill and approach to a particular type of problem. Anyway, I've laboured the point long enough, feel free to grab the last word but I think I've outlined my point well enough to be understood.

Dayshine 10y ago

>made some equivalents that allowed me to demonstrate my skill in a similar way (analogous to writing some code in a personal project). Except that doesn't work in programming. I can't take the core bits and re-release them in my own projects. In fact that's literally what I'm prohibited from doing. While in photography you can make the same photo with different people, in programming you absolutely cannot simply rewrite the same code.

PuffinBlue 10y ago
Did you miss the word equivalent in the statement you quoted? That's kind of the key word. OK. Imagine this... You photograph an event at an exclusive venue that you won't get access to again, with a setup you can't replicate (ever), with famous guests you'll never see again and a world famous VIP as the main subject. Oh and to boot, the client wants total confidentiality. No photo use for portfolios whatsoever. Seems just like the restrictions a programmer might face right? An infrastructure you can't replicate, code you can't publish, resources you won't have access too etc etc... This was some years ago now and I've left photography behind but how did I ever get to do that job in the first place? Created stuff myself, off my own back, unpaid and at great time expense that showed I had the level of skill and ability to do it. I chased other photographers, contributed time and talent to their projects and made stuff myself. And when the clients came looking I could show from my prior work and portfolio that I could do what they needed. And what did I do afterwards? Took inspiration from what I saw at this event and made additions to my portfolio that showed I could solve the kind of challenges I faced there, proving to subsequent customers that new skill. I didn't just say 'oh dear, I can't use this so that was a total loss, let's not do anything about it.' I went out and made new stuff that showed equivalent skill, not recreating the photo, proving the skill. Maybe I'm not being clear enough or maybe there's a misunderstanding of what type/level of photography I'm referring to so I'll state it plainly: Photography was just an analogy. The key is you're not taking the original work that you did if it's restricted, the key is creating something that shows equivalent skill. Remember, I already said that as a creative you're selling yourself, not the end product, so you're not trying to recreate the particulars of the exact photo/code but demonstrate you have the skill/ability to create something of equivalent difficulty. Need to prove you can run a big project? Well, run one. Do one yourself or join another. Find a way. Don't throw up a barrier every time something seems difficult or hard. It's meant to be hard. It might take a long time. Deal with it and get it done. That's what I'm saying. People will tell you you're getting taken advantage of and doing too much for too little right up until you're working for some global mega corps running some incredible team, earning massive bucks and all that stuff. They'll keep telling you it until you believe it. Or you can ignore them and just keep going, keep making something to show what you can do and keep chasing the jobs you want with that big backing of proof of your ability that you've got.