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You are suggesting that a background check system is doing a net good if more people benefit than are hurt. The problem is that a system like this would strong

by a3_nm 10y ago

You are suggesting that a background check system is doing a net good if more people benefit than are hurt. The problem is that a system like this would strongly encourage all people, good or bad, to avoid doing things that the system could object to. It's not enough to count the actual false positives, you have to take this loss of freedom into account as well. I don't think it's a good idea to have people self-censor because they worry how a surveillance algorithm will react to what they do. (The same way that you think twice, nowadays, about using problematic keywords or expressing a dangerously controversial opinion in a text message to a friend.)

louthy 10y ago
Exactly. This is exactly why systems like this pose such a threat. And what about the few that decide to say "Fuck the system!", well they become a social underclass - they can't get loans, mortgages, jobs, etc. It's a very slippery slope. Everyone should be entitled to a private life. And not everybody's private life would chime well with 'the establishment'. I could imagine myself falling foul of this because I produce music. It wouldn't take long on my facebook page to see that, so if a landlord could mine that information then I'd be unlikely to get a tenancy based on my potential to be a nuisance to my neighbours.
- visarga 10y ago
  You gotta be a model FB citizen to rent or loan. FB's got it made, nobody can ignore them any more, even if they want to.
visarga 10y ago
Also, part of the problem is in the extraordinary scalability of these algorithms. You can apply them to 1000, 1 million or 1 billion people with little difference in cost. So the harm they do can be multiplied and forced upon the population at a large scale, with no human in the loop.
Houshalter 10y ago
That's a fair point, you've changed my mind. However what about if such a system was voluntary? Like you could opt-out of it, or opt into it. That's how car insurance is starting to work. You can get a thing put in your car that will monitor your driving, and in exchange you get lower rates. Perhaps you could opt into the social media scanner and get lower interest rates. If you don't, you just get grouped with all the other people who voluntarily opted out, and your rates will probably not be any higher than before. And in any case, landlords and employers already look at social media profiles. It's not like that is going to go away if you ban this, but an algorithm has a chance to be more fair and unbiased at it than a human.

by a3_nm 10y ago

louthy 10y ago

Exactly. This is exactly why systems like this pose such a threat. And what about the few that decide to say "Fuck the system!", well they become a social underclass - they can't get loans, mortgages, jobs, etc. It's a very slippery slope. Everyone should be entitled to a private life. And not everybody's private life would chime well with 'the establishment'. I could imagine myself falling foul of this because I produce music. It wouldn't take long on my facebook page to see that, so if a landlord could mine that information then I'd be unlikely to get a tenancy based on my potential to be a nuisance to my neighbours.

visarga 10y ago
You gotta be a model FB citizen to rent or loan. FB's got it made, nobody can ignore them any more, even if they want to.

visarga 10y ago

Also, part of the problem is in the extraordinary scalability of these algorithms. You can apply them to 1000, 1 million or 1 billion people with little difference in cost. So the harm they do can be multiplied and forced upon the population at a large scale, with no human in the loop.

Houshalter 10y ago

That's a fair point, you've changed my mind. However what about if such a system was voluntary? Like you could opt-out of it, or opt into it. That's how car insurance is starting to work. You can get a thing put in your car that will monitor your driving, and in exchange you get lower rates. Perhaps you could opt into the social media scanner and get lower interest rates. If you don't, you just get grouped with all the other people who voluntarily opted out, and your rates will probably not be any higher than before. And in any case, landlords and employers already look at social media profiles. It's not like that is going to go away if you ban this, but an algorithm has a chance to be more fair and unbiased at it than a human.