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"Recently, a Model S was in a very high speed accident in Germany that caused it to fly 82 feet through the air, an event that would likely be fatal in vehicles

"Recently, a Model S was in a very high speed accident in Germany that caused it to fly 82 feet through the air, an event that would likely be fatal in vehicles not designed to the level of safety of a Tesla. All five occupants were able to exit the vehicle under their own power and had no life-threatening injuries." That is a pretty impressive feat for a car. Also, the voluntary recalls are an interesting case because to me they did something positive in doing a recall before any injury happened. When the news of the recall broke though, people were complaining about the recalls. Part of the problem is that any announcement by Tesla makes the news round while a similar recall by Toyota or anther company, that would affect many more people, wouldn't get a tenth of the attention.

FreeFull 10y ago
One thing that helps Tesla cars out in comparison to most other cars is that there is no engine in the front, so it's all just a huge crumple zone.
- pedrocr 10y ago
  The four wheel drive models do have an electric motor in the front as well but since it's small most of that benefit should still be there.
- creshal 10y ago
  Why? Motors can be part of a crumple zone, too. Look at e.g. the Smart – its engine gets pulverized in heavier crashes, and absorbs lots of the impact energy.
  - zelos 10y ago
    Presumably there are mechanical (heat, pressure, shock etc.) limits to how you build an engine that limit what you can do to improve safety? As light and small as modern engines are, they're still a big lump of iron/steel/aluminium.
    - creshal 10y ago
      Sure, but how is an empty space better at absorbing impact energy than that?
      - codeduck 10y ago
        Placing an engine in that empty space means that there is less space available for the car's crumple zones to deform before the engine intrudes into the passenger safety cell. A tesla can have its entire front concertina'd down to nothing without anything entering the safety cell. A front-engined normal car cannot do this; typically 50 to 60% of the length of the front of the car is engine. While external parts of the engine may crumple, the cylinder head and main section of the engine by necessity need to be milled from solid metal; These will not crumple, they will be pushed into the safety cell if the collision is energetic enough.
        jacquesm 10y ago
        In modern cars the design is such that the engine is pushed under the car if there is enough energy in the collision.
        ssmoot 10y ago
        In addition to the engine going under the vehicle (even at fairly low speed crashes; just watch NHSTA videos on YouTube), the front motor in a Model S is more dense and weighs about the same as a 4 cylinder engine, transmission and accessories. I'm gonna call that a wash until I see evidence to the contrary. Straight on collisions aren't even the toughest ones to pass. It's the small offset tests that really seem to give manufacturers a hard time. And no engine there.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        When empty space gets pushed into the cabin it doesn't amputate legs. When an engine gets pushed into the cabin it might amputate legs.
        kerryfalk 10y ago
  - whyenot 10y ago
    The engine in a Smart is in back, behind the occupants. In general, the most important crumple zone of a car is in the front.
  - awesomerobot 10y ago
    Yes, but it's just generally the laws of physics. If you have 600lbs of metal in front of you there's a lot more energy that has to go somewhere (the cabin).
    - tempestn 10y ago
      Or, (under the car).
    - Too 10y ago
      Having weight in front of you will help to push away the object you are colliding with, rather than having the same weight under you or behind you. That inertial energy is not relevant to what enters the cabin.
      - awesomerobot 10y ago
        The forward inertia of the engine isn't the problem if you're hitting a wall (though it is in a head-on collision), the cabin area is much squishier than an engine — so if the car is stopped from the front fast enough the cabin will enter the engine. More crumple zone and less engine is better for the inertia behind the engine (the passengers).
  - brohee 10y ago
    The motor is behind the driver on a Smart car...
zubspace 10y ago
Recent discussion regarding the german accident with pictures in the submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11650967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11650967 The cabin looks still intact and the outcome would would probably be different, if there was an engine in the front of the car. Still I believe those 5 peoples were very, very lucky. In my opinion this is just PR. You'd probably find examples like this for all car manufacturers.
- Vik1ng 10y ago
  http://gtspirit.com/2012/04/20/car-crash-bmw-m5-crashes-with-300kmh-on-the-autobahn/ http://gtspirit.com/2012/04/20/car-crash-bmw-m5-crashes-with...
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 10y ago
    > dog in the backseat Now that is impressive. The safety systems are all designed for humans and yet a dog in the backseat, who could probably not be properly secured, survived.
    - Xylakant 10y ago
      A dog can be fairly well secured on the backseat. A proper harness and a short leash that clips gets attached to the seat belt works perfectly fine.
      - outworlder 10y ago
        We do this whenever our dog is in the car. This is nowhere near as good as what we have for human passengers. One of the reasons is that dogs hate to be restrained. So there's a leash. In case of a frontal collision, this would prevent her from flying out of the window. In the case of the car itself flying, and possibly tumbling on impact, I don't think the odds would be that good, as the dog would likely impact against hard surfaces. Or other passengers. That's maybe the least of the problems though, if the car's structural integrity is compromised...
PinguTS 10y ago
Sorry, but this part of the blog article is completely PR BS. This car was speeding but not "very high speed". The car crashed into a field. This is flat. Every other comparable car like Mercedes E class, Audi A6, Volvo S60, … would have provided the same level of safety. Here the original reporting with images: http://www.tz.de/muenchen/region/schwerer-unfall-icking-18-jaehrige-rast-tesla-acker-6373238.html http://www.tz.de/muenchen/region/schwerer-unfall-icking-18-j...
- mkesper 10y ago
  The last image here shows why this car flew: http://electrek.co/2016/05/06/tesla-model-s-crash-large-crumple-zone-gallery/ http://electrek.co/2016/05/06/tesla-model-s-crash-large-crum...
- Mchl 10y ago
  What exactly is the difference between 'speeding' and 'very high speed'?
  - thomersch_ 10y ago
    In Germany those two things are distinct. 250 km/h is very high speed but not necessarily speeding.
  - PinguTS 10y ago
    Speeding = you are to fast according to the allowed speed High speed = anything above 130 km/h (about 80 mph; because that is the recommend speed on an Autobahn) Very high speed = anything above 250 km/h (about 155 mph; because that is where normally the limiter kicks in) Just, yesterday morning I drove my self at about 200 km/h (124 mph) because I was in hurry, because I had some unexpected road-construction work before. This was an 18 year old girl, who just had her driving license (18 is the minimum legal age for driving here in Germany; 17 with governed driving by an adult) Here an comparable accident who lifted for 40m (131ft) and crashed in a field with some rollover and it does not look that different from that Tesla accident: http://www.swp.de/heidenheim/lokales/polizeibericht/Auto-landet-nach-Ueberholvorgang-im-Acker;art1180840,3824196 http://www.swp.de/heidenheim/lokales/polizeibericht/Auto-lan... BTW: Are there any international news on how the safety cell of this BMW protected this 51 year old guy?
narag 10y ago
That is a pretty impressive feat for a car Long ago I was a passenger in a similar accident with a VW Golf that looked very much like this one after the dance. We walked out, just a little scratched and a lot scared. The jump distance itself is not impressive, I've seen longer without consecuence.
hermannj314 10y ago
I enjoy the irony of using an anecdote to imply something meaningful about a car's safety in the same article that decries the use of an anecdote to imply something meaningful about a car's quality. In total, a good response from Tesla.

FreeFull 10y ago

One thing that helps Tesla cars out in comparison to most other cars is that there is no engine in the front, so it's all just a huge crumple zone.

pedrocr 10y ago
The four wheel drive models do have an electric motor in the front as well but since it's small most of that benefit should still be there.
creshal 10y ago
Why? Motors can be part of a crumple zone, too. Look at e.g. the Smart – its engine gets pulverized in heavier crashes, and absorbs lots of the impact energy.
- zelos 10y ago
  Presumably there are mechanical (heat, pressure, shock etc.) limits to how you build an engine that limit what you can do to improve safety? As light and small as modern engines are, they're still a big lump of iron/steel/aluminium.
  - creshal 10y ago
    Sure, but how is an empty space better at absorbing impact energy than that?
    - codeduck 10y ago
      Placing an engine in that empty space means that there is less space available for the car's crumple zones to deform before the engine intrudes into the passenger safety cell. A tesla can have its entire front concertina'd down to nothing without anything entering the safety cell. A front-engined normal car cannot do this; typically 50 to 60% of the length of the front of the car is engine. While external parts of the engine may crumple, the cylinder head and main section of the engine by necessity need to be milled from solid metal; These will not crumple, they will be pushed into the safety cell if the collision is energetic enough.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        In modern cars the design is such that the engine is pushed under the car if there is enough energy in the collision.
      - ssmoot 10y ago
        In addition to the engine going under the vehicle (even at fairly low speed crashes; just watch NHSTA videos on YouTube), the front motor in a Model S is more dense and weighs about the same as a 4 cylinder engine, transmission and accessories. I'm gonna call that a wash until I see evidence to the contrary. Straight on collisions aren't even the toughest ones to pass. It's the small offset tests that really seem to give manufacturers a hard time. And no engine there.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      When empty space gets pushed into the cabin it doesn't amputate legs. When an engine gets pushed into the cabin it might amputate legs.
      - kerryfalk 10y ago
- whyenot 10y ago
  The engine in a Smart is in back, behind the occupants. In general, the most important crumple zone of a car is in the front.
- awesomerobot 10y ago
  Yes, but it's just generally the laws of physics. If you have 600lbs of metal in front of you there's a lot more energy that has to go somewhere (the cabin).
  - tempestn 10y ago
    Or, (under the car).
  - Too 10y ago
    Having weight in front of you will help to push away the object you are colliding with, rather than having the same weight under you or behind you. That inertial energy is not relevant to what enters the cabin.
    - awesomerobot 10y ago
      The forward inertia of the engine isn't the problem if you're hitting a wall (though it is in a head-on collision), the cabin area is much squishier than an engine — so if the car is stopped from the front fast enough the cabin will enter the engine. More crumple zone and less engine is better for the inertia behind the engine (the passengers).
- brohee 10y ago
  The motor is behind the driver on a Smart car...

zubspace 10y ago

Recent discussion regarding the german accident with pictures in the submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11650967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11650967 The cabin looks still intact and the outcome would would probably be different, if there was an engine in the front of the car. Still I believe those 5 peoples were very, very lucky. In my opinion this is just PR. You'd probably find examples like this for all car manufacturers.

Vik1ng 10y ago
http://gtspirit.com/2012/04/20/car-crash-bmw-m5-crashes-with-300kmh-on-the-autobahn/ http://gtspirit.com/2012/04/20/car-crash-bmw-m5-crashes-with...
- tgsovlerkhgsel 10y ago
  > dog in the backseat Now that is impressive. The safety systems are all designed for humans and yet a dog in the backseat, who could probably not be properly secured, survived.
  - Xylakant 10y ago
    A dog can be fairly well secured on the backseat. A proper harness and a short leash that clips gets attached to the seat belt works perfectly fine.
    - outworlder 10y ago
      We do this whenever our dog is in the car. This is nowhere near as good as what we have for human passengers. One of the reasons is that dogs hate to be restrained. So there's a leash. In case of a frontal collision, this would prevent her from flying out of the window. In the case of the car itself flying, and possibly tumbling on impact, I don't think the odds would be that good, as the dog would likely impact against hard surfaces. Or other passengers. That's maybe the least of the problems though, if the car's structural integrity is compromised...

PinguTS 10y ago

Sorry, but this part of the blog article is completely PR BS. This car was speeding but not "very high speed". The car crashed into a field. This is flat. Every other comparable car like Mercedes E class, Audi A6, Volvo S60, … would have provided the same level of safety. Here the original reporting with images: http://www.tz.de/muenchen/region/schwerer-unfall-icking-18-jaehrige-rast-tesla-acker-6373238.html http://www.tz.de/muenchen/region/schwerer-unfall-icking-18-j...

mkesper 10y ago
The last image here shows why this car flew: http://electrek.co/2016/05/06/tesla-model-s-crash-large-crumple-zone-gallery/ http://electrek.co/2016/05/06/tesla-model-s-crash-large-crum...
Mchl 10y ago
What exactly is the difference between 'speeding' and 'very high speed'?
- thomersch_ 10y ago
  In Germany those two things are distinct. 250 km/h is very high speed but not necessarily speeding.
- PinguTS 10y ago
  Speeding = you are to fast according to the allowed speed High speed = anything above 130 km/h (about 80 mph; because that is the recommend speed on an Autobahn) Very high speed = anything above 250 km/h (about 155 mph; because that is where normally the limiter kicks in) Just, yesterday morning I drove my self at about 200 km/h (124 mph) because I was in hurry, because I had some unexpected road-construction work before. This was an 18 year old girl, who just had her driving license (18 is the minimum legal age for driving here in Germany; 17 with governed driving by an adult) Here an comparable accident who lifted for 40m (131ft) and crashed in a field with some rollover and it does not look that different from that Tesla accident: http://www.swp.de/heidenheim/lokales/polizeibericht/Auto-landet-nach-Ueberholvorgang-im-Acker;art1180840,3824196 http://www.swp.de/heidenheim/lokales/polizeibericht/Auto-lan... BTW: Are there any international news on how the safety cell of this BMW protected this 51 year old guy?

narag 10y ago

That is a pretty impressive feat for a car Long ago I was a passenger in a similar accident with a VW Golf that looked very much like this one after the dance. We walked out, just a little scratched and a lot scared. The jump distance itself is not impressive, I've seen longer without consecuence.

hermannj314 10y ago

I enjoy the irony of using an anecdote to imply something meaningful about a car's safety in the same article that decries the use of an anecdote to imply something meaningful about a car's quality. In total, a good response from Tesla.