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It wont temper the claim that EVs are maintenance free because it has nothing to do with how much maintenance EVs require. The premise is that the best implemen

by bronz 10y ago

It wont temper the claim that EVs are maintenance free because it has nothing to do with how much maintenance EVs require. The premise is that the best implementation of an EV will require much less maintenance than the best implementation of an ICE.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
But it remains that this argument is a silly one, made by people who've never had brake dust under their fingernails. If you look at common things which need to be fixed/replaced on a five-ten year old car, most of the things are also found on EVs: * Brake pads, lines, discs etc. * Suspension * Steering * Driveline, bushings, bearings * Sensors (a big issue, esp. ABS/ESP sensors) * Electrical wiring * ECU/firmware/software errors * Tires And just a few ICE specifics, which are all on the cheap end compared to the list above: * Exhaust system * Timing belt * Battery * Spark plugs And then there's the EV boogeyman: when will your battery need maintenance, and ultimately replacement? Also, your comment on "the best EV vs the best ICE" is completely besides the point. We could make an ICE vehicle last millions of kilometers without maintenance outside of oil changes etc., but it would be expensive, heavy and bad for the automaker's business. Same arguments apply to EVs. Tesla doesn't profit from having cars that last twenty years with almost no maintenance required.
- bronz 10y ago
  brakelines dont exist on a tesla. the brakes are electromechanical. the pads and disks last much, much longer because most braking is done with regen. software errors are handled over the air. batteries now last a long time and they will last much, much longer without needing any improvement in technology. the battery in a tesla can be replaced in literally seconds. try that with anything from an ICE that has to be mechanically linked to other parts. you see, you dont really know anything about EVs. but this very simple principle should be enough to settle things: ICEs use many moving parts and use explosions. electric motors have one moving part. so as you can see, the best ICE is worse than the best EV even when you include cost efficiency in the definition of best. EVs are already way better than ICEs. And even if you spent a million dollars making a very reliable ICE it would still be less reliable than a run of the mill EV...
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    Those software errors fixed OTA: do you really imagine Tesla will provide that service for free over the next fifteen-twenty years? Also, you mention no brake lines because of electromechanical brakes: this is not an EV feature. It's a luxury car feature. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts the Model 3 has a braking system essentially identical to the one on a compact hybrid car. "ICEs use many moving parts and explosions" - this is a stupid argument. Modern ICEs are incredibly reliable. You change the oil and oil filter every year, make sure the coolant level is fine, and you change spark plugs and timing belts twice per decade. None of that is expensive nor difficult, and that engine will keep on ticking for fifty years/hundreds of thousands of miles easily.
    - bronz 10y ago
      im sorry to break this to you but electric motors are more reliable than combustion engines. they require less maintenance and last longer because of their inherent advantages. and the number of moving parts and lack of explosions/chemical reactions is basically why. you call my argument stupid but you fail to raise a single valid argument against it. all you can say is that modern engines do pretty well, which has nothing to do with how they do compared to electric motors. in fact im pretty sure the reason you resort to name calling is because you know youre wrong... and brake lines still require less maintenance for the same reason that pads and disks do. balls in your court.
      - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        Well, you're kind of ignoring the main point of my argument: current ICEs are sufficiently reliable that when something breaks on a modern ICE car, 95% of the time that component is completely unrelated to the engine. So even though electric motors are even more reliable (I agree, they are), this only gives you a reliability increase of 5%. This is basically Amdahls law. Improving the part that causes 5% of the problems will at most solve 5% of your problems. Edit: and you're wrong about the brake lines. Those need servicing because of surface rust, which happens regardless of how often you use them. And funnily enough, brake discs can have shorter maintenance intervals the less you use them: again, surface rust. If you're driving in wet weather in a normal car, heat from braking dries your discs up. That doesn't if they're not used that much.

by bronz 10y ago

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

But it remains that this argument is a silly one, made by people who've never had brake dust under their fingernails. If you look at common things which need to be fixed/replaced on a five-ten year old car, most of the things are also found on EVs: * Brake pads, lines, discs etc. * Suspension * Steering * Driveline, bushings, bearings * Sensors (a big issue, esp. ABS/ESP sensors) * Electrical wiring * ECU/firmware/software errors * Tires And just a few ICE specifics, which are all on the cheap end compared to the list above: * Exhaust system * Timing belt * Battery * Spark plugs And then there's the EV boogeyman: when will your battery need maintenance, and ultimately replacement? Also, your comment on "the best EV vs the best ICE" is completely besides the point. We could make an ICE vehicle last millions of kilometers without maintenance outside of oil changes etc., but it would be expensive, heavy and bad for the automaker's business. Same arguments apply to EVs. Tesla doesn't profit from having cars that last twenty years with almost no maintenance required.

bronz 10y ago
brakelines dont exist on a tesla. the brakes are electromechanical. the pads and disks last much, much longer because most braking is done with regen. software errors are handled over the air. batteries now last a long time and they will last much, much longer without needing any improvement in technology. the battery in a tesla can be replaced in literally seconds. try that with anything from an ICE that has to be mechanically linked to other parts. you see, you dont really know anything about EVs. but this very simple principle should be enough to settle things: ICEs use many moving parts and use explosions. electric motors have one moving part. so as you can see, the best ICE is worse than the best EV even when you include cost efficiency in the definition of best. EVs are already way better than ICEs. And even if you spent a million dollars making a very reliable ICE it would still be less reliable than a run of the mill EV...
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  Those software errors fixed OTA: do you really imagine Tesla will provide that service for free over the next fifteen-twenty years? Also, you mention no brake lines because of electromechanical brakes: this is not an EV feature. It's a luxury car feature. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts the Model 3 has a braking system essentially identical to the one on a compact hybrid car. "ICEs use many moving parts and explosions" - this is a stupid argument. Modern ICEs are incredibly reliable. You change the oil and oil filter every year, make sure the coolant level is fine, and you change spark plugs and timing belts twice per decade. None of that is expensive nor difficult, and that engine will keep on ticking for fifty years/hundreds of thousands of miles easily.
  - bronz 10y ago
    im sorry to break this to you but electric motors are more reliable than combustion engines. they require less maintenance and last longer because of their inherent advantages. and the number of moving parts and lack of explosions/chemical reactions is basically why. you call my argument stupid but you fail to raise a single valid argument against it. all you can say is that modern engines do pretty well, which has nothing to do with how they do compared to electric motors. in fact im pretty sure the reason you resort to name calling is because you know youre wrong... and brake lines still require less maintenance for the same reason that pads and disks do. balls in your court.
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      Well, you're kind of ignoring the main point of my argument: current ICEs are sufficiently reliable that when something breaks on a modern ICE car, 95% of the time that component is completely unrelated to the engine. So even though electric motors are even more reliable (I agree, they are), this only gives you a reliability increase of 5%. This is basically Amdahls law. Improving the part that causes 5% of the problems will at most solve 5% of your problems. Edit: and you're wrong about the brake lines. Those need servicing because of surface rust, which happens regardless of how often you use them. And funnily enough, brake discs can have shorter maintenance intervals the less you use them: again, surface rust. If you're driving in wet weather in a normal car, heat from braking dries your discs up. That doesn't if they're not used that much.