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Flatiron School was nothing like this. We had long lectures every day by a great senior-level dev, and then review sessions with recent grads later in the day.

Flatiron School was nothing like this. We had long lectures every day by a great senior-level dev, and then review sessions with recent grads later in the day. It was a really polished curriculum, and a great environment to work hard in. $20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money. I used to do something I didn't love for a living and now I get to write code. Life is short. I'm thankful bootcamps exist and there was a path for me to transition into a challenging, engaging career. I've been out for almost a year now. I hope they're still keeping the standards high.

cwarrior 10y ago
How much was the tuition at Flatiron?
- aczerepinski 10y ago
  I think 15k plus living in NYC for a few months.
gk1 10y ago
> "$20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money." That is a very substantial amount of cash for most people. Not to mention the time commitment. (As you say, life is short.)
- seangrogg 10y ago
  Eh, much cheaper than a $40,000 4-year commitment (from a public university, assuming $5,000 semesters - which is very lenient).
  - gk1 10y ago
    That's been brought up a few times in this thread. I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. You can borrow student loans for college, but the $20k comes out of pocket.
    - gwern 10y ago
      That >$40k+interest in loans still gets paid out of your pocket.
    - seangrogg 10y ago
      Or you could do what I did, get a shitty minimum-wage code monkey startup job beforehand so you know what you're getting into before you commit, then sock away some funds, take out a personal loan, and because you're a programmer you can turn the entire tuition into a business expense and also deduct the cost of moving to <insert tech hub here>. Easily paid the loan off once I got my first job. Got a huge tax return last month. Now enjoying writing this from Mountain View.
    - aczerepinski 10y ago
      Most bootcamp students already have college degrees. Many have families and mortgages, etc. Dropping from the workforce for four years to do another college degree isn't a realistic option. Tuition isn't the biggest cost of education at a certain point in life; lost wages is.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        A second bachelor's is unlikely to take four years of full-time work; e.g., Oregon State's online second bachelor's in CS is a 1-year full time program.
        aczerepinski 10y ago
        That's cool and an option I didn't know about. Still, an entire year of lost wages is way more expensive than a bootcamp. I couldn't have made that work.
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Still, an entire year of lost wages is way more expensive than a bootcamp. Plenty of people do online programs nearly equivalent to full-time (with loads like that of the 1.5-year track for the OSU second bachelor's, which is also available on 2-, 3-, and 4-year tracks with lower impacts, though longer terms) with full-time jobs and families, some even do full-time programs (like the 1-year track) that way. People that need to learn around an existing job and often family commitments are pretty much the core market for distance education. That's not to say bootcamps don't have their place, but the idea that there is no other option for people who want to become programmers and can't afford to take a lot of time off of their existing job is just wrong.
- aczerepinski 10y ago
  It isn't bad relative to what a developer earns in their first 10 years. Or even if it doesn't bring a great salary, working in software is fun.
seangrogg 10y ago
Circa a year ago the remote HR experience was pretty great. While the lectures were pre-recorded (to be expected) we always had Q&A sessions to demystify any remaining questions. And our tech leads were from notable companies. I figured the remote option was really as great as it gets - the majority of the learning still being applicable (many teams work via repositories rather than shared drives anyways) while getting to do the whole thing with no pants from my room in Arizona (much cheaper living expenses).
neaumusic 10y ago
this is exactly what HR is like... just because someone breaks up with their girlfriend and goes on a rant doesn't mean the school actually sucks

cwarrior 10y ago

How much was the tuition at Flatiron?

aczerepinski 10y ago
I think 15k plus living in NYC for a few months.

gk1 10y ago

> "$20k is indeed expensive, but it's only money." That is a very substantial amount of cash for most people. Not to mention the time commitment. (As you say, life is short.)

seangrogg 10y ago
Eh, much cheaper than a $40,000 4-year commitment (from a public university, assuming $5,000 semesters - which is very lenient).
- gk1 10y ago
  That's been brought up a few times in this thread. I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. You can borrow student loans for college, but the $20k comes out of pocket.
  - gwern 10y ago
    That >$40k+interest in loans still gets paid out of your pocket.
  - seangrogg 10y ago
    Or you could do what I did, get a shitty minimum-wage code monkey startup job beforehand so you know what you're getting into before you commit, then sock away some funds, take out a personal loan, and because you're a programmer you can turn the entire tuition into a business expense and also deduct the cost of moving to <insert tech hub here>. Easily paid the loan off once I got my first job. Got a huge tax return last month. Now enjoying writing this from Mountain View.
  - aczerepinski 10y ago
    Most bootcamp students already have college degrees. Many have families and mortgages, etc. Dropping from the workforce for four years to do another college degree isn't a realistic option. Tuition isn't the biggest cost of education at a certain point in life; lost wages is.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      A second bachelor's is unlikely to take four years of full-time work; e.g., Oregon State's online second bachelor's in CS is a 1-year full time program.
      - aczerepinski 10y ago
        That's cool and an option I didn't know about. Still, an entire year of lost wages is way more expensive than a bootcamp. I couldn't have made that work.
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Still, an entire year of lost wages is way more expensive than a bootcamp. Plenty of people do online programs nearly equivalent to full-time (with loads like that of the 1.5-year track for the OSU second bachelor's, which is also available on 2-, 3-, and 4-year tracks with lower impacts, though longer terms) with full-time jobs and families, some even do full-time programs (like the 1-year track) that way. People that need to learn around an existing job and often family commitments are pretty much the core market for distance education. That's not to say bootcamps don't have their place, but the idea that there is no other option for people who want to become programmers and can't afford to take a lot of time off of their existing job is just wrong.
aczerepinski 10y ago
It isn't bad relative to what a developer earns in their first 10 years. Or even if it doesn't bring a great salary, working in software is fun.

seangrogg 10y ago

Circa a year ago the remote HR experience was pretty great. While the lectures were pre-recorded (to be expected) we always had Q&A sessions to demystify any remaining questions. And our tech leads were from notable companies. I figured the remote option was really as great as it gets - the majority of the learning still being applicable (many teams work via repositories rather than shared drives anyways) while getting to do the whole thing with no pants from my room in Arizona (much cheaper living expenses).

neaumusic 10y ago

this is exactly what HR is like... just because someone breaks up with their girlfriend and goes on a rant doesn't mean the school actually sucks