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> "Consistent rendering size across browsers? Just fuck off." > This is probably your fault. As someone who has spent an embarrassing amount of time debugging

> "Consistent rendering size across browsers? Just fuck off." > This is probably your fault. As someone who has spent an embarrassing amount of time debugging kerning differences, line spacing, and obscure letter size differences across IE/Firefox/Chrome I can enthusiastically say, it might be his fault but I doubt it. Different browsers do things differently and in cases where things must be the same, this is an expensive and time-consuming problem.

rhizome 10y ago
Can't a UI be designed such that minor fontsize differences aren't a disaster?
- Someone1234 10y ago
  Yes. But the article paints the picture that these weren't minor font size differences.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    "We change font size on Chrome and now all you can see on Firefox is the letter F." They're doing something funky. They can call it a "2016 website" but the problems described in the article don't really make sense to me as anything but design-related. Now, I know that you can't design your way out of every problem, but if they're going to use IE6 as a hellmouth and not IE8, they may be using a greater number of bad practices than necessary.
MichaelGG 10y ago
For a while, Firefox mobile would render different parts of HN's text in different sizes. At first I thought it was a mobile-only feature, but that would be odd for HN to do. Nope, turns out it was a Firefox table-something layout font issue. Seems fixed as of, perhaps 6 months ago? Searching around also finds this answer pointing to a now-dead link saying Chrome used to have known issues with "consistent" fonts on sites like Reddit. http://stackoverflow.com/a/19988987/27012 http://stackoverflow.com/a/19988987/27012
- ptx 10y ago
  It is actually a feature, called "font inflation"[1], that tries to find the main content text on a site not designed for mobile and make it a readable size. It just wasn't doing a good job figuring out which parts were the content. I would guess the recent improvement is due to the site itself being fixed – it now uses a "viewport" meta tag, which I don't think it did last year. [1] http://www.jwir3.com/font-inflation-fennec-and-you/ http://www.jwir3.com/font-inflation-fennec-and-you/
  - fixermark 10y ago
    Yep. Features like this are basically why developing tightly-controlled UI experiences on the web are a garbage fire. For a tightly-controlled UI experience, you want a thin, predictable framework that you can build your experience on top of. The web is the opposite of that. Big, big chunks of important detail for user experience are not specified in the RFCs and standards themselves. Take CSS as an example. The first thing most web development frameworks will have you load is a CSS that sets the style for everything to some known defaults. If the web as an app development framework had been designed for a controllable experience, that would be unnecessary. But the web wasn't designed as an app development framework; it was designed as a heavily user-configurable presentation layer for standardized format of content.
    - IanCal 10y ago
      While I generally agree, I'm not surprised mobile browsers did weird things with HN. Look at the source, it's nested tables with expanded invisible 1 pixel gifs used for indentation.
      - MichaelGG 10y ago
        I've not designed HTML since the early 2000s but that was an easy, workable, way to do layout then and should still work now. HTML takes are just weird and require tricks like that to work. I understand the current preferred way is creating a grid via CSS.

rhizome 10y ago

Can't a UI be designed such that minor fontsize differences aren't a disaster?

Someone1234 10y ago
Yes. But the article paints the picture that these weren't minor font size differences.
- rhizome 10y ago
  "We change font size on Chrome and now all you can see on Firefox is the letter F." They're doing something funky. They can call it a "2016 website" but the problems described in the article don't really make sense to me as anything but design-related. Now, I know that you can't design your way out of every problem, but if they're going to use IE6 as a hellmouth and not IE8, they may be using a greater number of bad practices than necessary.

MichaelGG 10y ago

For a while, Firefox mobile would render different parts of HN's text in different sizes. At first I thought it was a mobile-only feature, but that would be odd for HN to do. Nope, turns out it was a Firefox table-something layout font issue. Seems fixed as of, perhaps 6 months ago? Searching around also finds this answer pointing to a now-dead link saying Chrome used to have known issues with "consistent" fonts on sites like Reddit. http://stackoverflow.com/a/19988987/27012 http://stackoverflow.com/a/19988987/27012

ptx 10y ago
It is actually a feature, called "font inflation"[1], that tries to find the main content text on a site not designed for mobile and make it a readable size. It just wasn't doing a good job figuring out which parts were the content. I would guess the recent improvement is due to the site itself being fixed – it now uses a "viewport" meta tag, which I don't think it did last year. [1] http://www.jwir3.com/font-inflation-fennec-and-you/ http://www.jwir3.com/font-inflation-fennec-and-you/
- fixermark 10y ago
  Yep. Features like this are basically why developing tightly-controlled UI experiences on the web are a garbage fire. For a tightly-controlled UI experience, you want a thin, predictable framework that you can build your experience on top of. The web is the opposite of that. Big, big chunks of important detail for user experience are not specified in the RFCs and standards themselves. Take CSS as an example. The first thing most web development frameworks will have you load is a CSS that sets the style for everything to some known defaults. If the web as an app development framework had been designed for a controllable experience, that would be unnecessary. But the web wasn't designed as an app development framework; it was designed as a heavily user-configurable presentation layer for standardized format of content.
  - IanCal 10y ago
    While I generally agree, I'm not surprised mobile browsers did weird things with HN. Look at the source, it's nested tables with expanded invisible 1 pixel gifs used for indentation.
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      I've not designed HTML since the early 2000s but that was an easy, workable, way to do layout then and should still work now. HTML takes are just weird and require tricks like that to work. I understand the current preferred way is creating a grid via CSS.