5 ms·

The shallowness, the lack of seriousness of modern presidential candidates is almost unbelievable. No, it's totally believable. And perfectly predictable. Wh

by edw519 17y ago

The shallowness, the lack of seriousness of modern presidential candidates is almost unbelievable. No, it's totally believable. And perfectly predictable. Why? Because these are people who, for the most part, are totally out of touch with reality. Why? Because they've never actually had to work for a living. The classic case was an adult Ted Kennedy not able to figure out how to pull shopping carts apart because he had never seen them before. Sometimes I wonder how many D.C. office holders, if left alone in the woods without a cell phone, would actually live. We have this community here at hn where we beat technical and business issues to death as we strive to improve ourselves and that which we produce. Most of those running for office are 180 degrees away from that. Most political office seekers commenting on this board would be laughed off as "posers" in nanoseconds. Political candidates, like startup founders, would do everyone a big favor if they first joined the real world and produced something of value for someone else. Until then, "unbelievable" will remain the norm.

idlewords 17y ago
"they've never actually had to work for a living." So let's see... of the main contenders in 2008, John McCain served in the military and worked in public relations for a beer distributor, Obama was a community organizer and lawyer, Edwards was a lawyer, Clinton was a law professor and administrator, and Palin was a sports reporter. Those all sound like jobs to me. And I'll go even further and say senator and governor sound like perfectly valid full-time jobs. I'm also willing to bet politicians who stump have contact with a far wider range of people than almost anyone else. How many Iowa steak frys and ag fairs have you attended lately?
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- mmt 17y ago
  Those all sound like jobs to me. Except the OC said "work for a living" not "hold jobs." I'm pretty sure that those of us on HN who have been inside larger organizations know the difference can be stark. I would further fine-tune the assertion: they have never had to create wealth for a living.
- edw519 17y ago
  Those all sound like jobs to me. To anyone who has ever had to run a business, they all sound like days off. Military and government couldn't possibly function without threatening incarceration in order to get their revenue. Public relations for a celebrity, administration, sports reporter? Vacations. far wider range of people and Iowa steak frys seem like contradictions in terms. It's one thing to campaign for votes to feed your ego. It's another to get dollars from customers to feed your children.
  - idlewords 17y ago
    If you choose to look at it in those terms, any business ultimately depends on the threat of incarceration to get its revenue. Depicting government as an obstacle to free enterprise is like calling roads an obstacle to cars going wherever they please. I run a business and those jobs all sound like hard work to me. Maybe you're doing it wrong!
- jackfoxy 17y ago
  McCain earned the monicker "Ace" in the Navy for losing 5 aircraft. The only reason they kept giving him new ones was he was a 4 star admiral's son. His PR job was glad-handing, not usually what one means by "working for a living". (I dont' mean to denigrate his service, just reporting.) "Community organizer"...I'd get downvoted if I commented on this one. "Lawyer"... Clinton was a law professor for a very short time. Pure politics after that. I don't think he ever held a job in high school or college other than chauffeuring Sen. Fullbright.
  - idlewords 17y ago
    Clinton worked in a fish cannery and as a dishwasher, among other things. McCain's cushy PR job came after a prolonged period of rotting in a Vietnamese prison. I don't really follow your insinuation about community organizing, but where I live (SF) it tends to take the form of working long hours for minimal pay in some dire neighborhoods. So I fail to see the point you're trying to make. What is the threshold of 'real work' career politicians have to cross before they are legitimate in your eyes? In the book this post references, everyone except Palin is shown to have an enormous capacity for sustained hard work.
gruseom 17y ago
The classic case was an adult Ted Kennedy not able to figure out how to pull shopping carts apart because he had never seen them before. Do you have a source on that? It sounds like classic urban legend to me. In fact it sounds like a variation on the urban legend about George H.W. Bush being amazed because he'd never seen a bar scanner before (http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp).
- edw519 17y ago
  Page 70 of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Senator-Ten-Years-Ted-Kennedy/dp/0312304668/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268419292&sr=8-16 http://www.amazon.com/Senator-Ten-Years-Ted-Kennedy/dp/03123...
  - gruseom 17y ago
    Huh? That page contains nothing at all about Kennedy supposedly not knowing how to pull shopping carts apart. (What it is is an anecdote of Ted Kennedy being boorish. But there has never been a shortage in that department, and it's not what was at issue here.)

by edw519 17y ago

idlewords 17y ago

"they've never actually had to work for a living." So let's see... of the main contenders in 2008, John McCain served in the military and worked in public relations for a beer distributor, Obama was a community organizer and lawyer, Edwards was a lawyer, Clinton was a law professor and administrator, and Palin was a sports reporter. Those all sound like jobs to me. And I'll go even further and say senator and governor sound like perfectly valid full-time jobs. I'm also willing to bet politicians who stump have contact with a far wider range of people than almost anyone else. How many Iowa steak frys and ag fairs have you attended lately?

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
mmt 17y ago
Those all sound like jobs to me. Except the OC said "work for a living" not "hold jobs." I'm pretty sure that those of us on HN who have been inside larger organizations know the difference can be stark. I would further fine-tune the assertion: they have never had to create wealth for a living.
edw519 17y ago
Those all sound like jobs to me. To anyone who has ever had to run a business, they all sound like days off. Military and government couldn't possibly function without threatening incarceration in order to get their revenue. Public relations for a celebrity, administration, sports reporter? Vacations. far wider range of people and Iowa steak frys seem like contradictions in terms. It's one thing to campaign for votes to feed your ego. It's another to get dollars from customers to feed your children.
- idlewords 17y ago
  If you choose to look at it in those terms, any business ultimately depends on the threat of incarceration to get its revenue. Depicting government as an obstacle to free enterprise is like calling roads an obstacle to cars going wherever they please. I run a business and those jobs all sound like hard work to me. Maybe you're doing it wrong!
jackfoxy 17y ago
McCain earned the monicker "Ace" in the Navy for losing 5 aircraft. The only reason they kept giving him new ones was he was a 4 star admiral's son. His PR job was glad-handing, not usually what one means by "working for a living". (I dont' mean to denigrate his service, just reporting.) "Community organizer"...I'd get downvoted if I commented on this one. "Lawyer"... Clinton was a law professor for a very short time. Pure politics after that. I don't think he ever held a job in high school or college other than chauffeuring Sen. Fullbright.
- idlewords 17y ago
  Clinton worked in a fish cannery and as a dishwasher, among other things. McCain's cushy PR job came after a prolonged period of rotting in a Vietnamese prison. I don't really follow your insinuation about community organizing, but where I live (SF) it tends to take the form of working long hours for minimal pay in some dire neighborhoods. So I fail to see the point you're trying to make. What is the threshold of 'real work' career politicians have to cross before they are legitimate in your eyes? In the book this post references, everyone except Palin is shown to have an enormous capacity for sustained hard work.

gruseom 17y ago

The classic case was an adult Ted Kennedy not able to figure out how to pull shopping carts apart because he had never seen them before. Do you have a source on that? It sounds like classic urban legend to me. In fact it sounds like a variation on the urban legend about George H.W. Bush being amazed because he'd never seen a bar scanner before (http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp).

edw519 17y ago
Page 70 of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Senator-Ten-Years-Ted-Kennedy/dp/0312304668/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268419292&sr=8-16 http://www.amazon.com/Senator-Ten-Years-Ted-Kennedy/dp/03123...
- gruseom 17y ago
  Huh? That page contains nothing at all about Kennedy supposedly not knowing how to pull shopping carts apart. (What it is is an anecdote of Ted Kennedy being boorish. But there has never been a shortage in that department, and it's not what was at issue here.)