10 ms·

I've always wondered if there is scope for a MMO version of Elite that is less ambitious (especially graphically) in some ways than the current Elite: Dangerous

I've always wondered if there is scope for a MMO version of Elite that is less ambitious (especially graphically) in some ways than the current Elite: Dangerous but still has the essence of Elite; I'm thinking 3D graphics with a retro vibe, maybe primarily text based menus for in-station activities (and certainly no desire for on-planet or first person shooter components). Even keep the generative universe of the original with its nutty planet descriptions.

kleiba 10y ago
Slightly unrelated: if you're into "3D graphics with a retro vibe", check out "Return of the Obra Dinn" by Lucas Pope (of "Papers, please" fame): https://dukope.itch.io/return-of-the-obra-dinn https://dukope.itch.io/return-of-the-obra-dinn It has nothing to do with Elite or space adventures or anything like that, though.
- RBerenguel 10y ago
  His development blog is awesome too, I specially liked when he was working out the best way to create effective looking dithering for 3D objects.
  - vanderZwan 10y ago
    And then a mathematician who happened to read the blog started to think about it and created a new dithering algorithm just for him[0], which was pretty awesome. [0] https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg1212805#msg1212805 https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg121280...
cstross 10y ago
Doesn't EVE Online scratch that itch for you?
- jimmcslim 10y ago
  I'm thinking something that still has a meaningful dogfighting experience (like the original Elite - whereas EVE Online when I last played was more like an RTS?) and generally far more accessible. But a 'casual' and accessible mix of Elite and EVE with a MMO persistent universe and retroish graphics is what I have in mind. Whereas the new Elite: Dangerous as impressive as it looks (and I'd love to play it... just don't have a beefy PC or Mac at the moment) misses something I think by not having everyone flying in the same universe (I know the simulation is shared and that there is also a solo play mode available). I've wondered why they didn't adopt a monthly subscription approach to support the servers to make that possible?
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    I'm thinking something that still has a meaningful dogfighting experience (like the original Elite - whereas EVE Online when I last played was more like an RTS?) and generally far more accessible. I am working on an MMO that has a meaningful dogfighting experience. It's not twitch and rapid perfect aiming like an FPS. Instead, it's about relative positioning. Also, it's 2D, using an Asteroids flight mechanic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSlpbxv4zZc&list=PLDIbNZGhS5iDSMoDihoU7aXJzOGFRDGGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSlpbxv4zZc&list=PLDIbNZGhS5...
  - Eded33 10y ago
    I think that was their fatal mistake. The peer-to-peer networking model has made the game feel lifeless and that none of your actions have a persistent effect. Really wish David B had focused on making a fun solo version of the old game; or a decent online one, not this ... muddle.
jimjimjim 10y ago
yes, a mud version of elite could be quite interesting and without the expense of aaa level graphics.
astrobe_ 10y ago
Not MMO, OOlite can be "retro" with the right options on. Extensions (aka "OXP" or "OXZ" in Oolite lingo) can give you in-station text based activities (the extension is named "Life in the Frontier" IIRC) and planet descriptions, among other things (there are about 400 extensions available from the integrated package manager, not counting older ones that haven't been ported). Extensions are written mostly in Javascript and the community is very friendly and helpful. Last but not least, it's free and open source.
- vidarh 10y ago
  I second Oolite. And in terms of adding networking, a game following the original Elite model should be fairly "MMO friendly" in that each system is basically closed - players can jump in and out, but there's no continuous flight between systems (unless they've added that to Oolite since I last checked it out), so e.g. scaling it to multiple servers can be done on the star-system level up until there's quite a lot of players. I haven't looked at the extensions mechanism - it'd be interesting if players could "claim" systems and dynamically control gameplay capabilities in their system. Would create challenges with e.g. the economy/trading etc. (preventing users from setting up a server that gives them infinite credits to bring back to other systems) - perhaps that'd actually be a suitable use for a blockchain... (Not that I have time to spend on something like this, but I'll back it in spirit if someone hacks Oolite or similar into a MMO... I might back it with money too if someone where to want to crowdfund something like it)
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    but there's no continuous flight between systems I'm working on a game in the spirit of Elite, but with continuous flight between systems, in the spirit of Star Control 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev
    - vidarh 10y ago
      I actually don't really like the continuous flight between systems. I prefer the simplicity of Elite. The massive increase in complexity is one of the reasons I never liked the sequels. But don't pay attention to me - I'm unlikely to be representative when it comes to a gamer audience.
boyce 10y ago
I'd love a modern remake of Space Rogue
- Annatar 10y ago
  Space Rogue was such an awesome game: it had action, it had (for Commodore64) revolutionary filled 3D vector graphics, but most importantly, it had an involved, mysterious, and compelling story. And it was a challenging game which made one play hard, but it rewarded that with lots of generated Endorphine. Anyone remember getting the neurostabilizer boosters, without the personal shield? That is a game truly worthy of a remake, as is Battle Tech: the Crescent Hawks' inception. I'd also finally like to find my father with his Phoenix Hawk mech in a sequel to that game...
scrollaway 10y ago
I know what you mean. Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos [1] is very representative of that. Unfortunately, it's single player (there is a multiplayer arena but it's not great). A few years ago a friend and I were working on a spiritual successor to EoC. When the Star Citizen kickstarter was announced, we gave up - no chance to compete with that, and we found they could apply our vision with a lot more money and a much more serious team. [1] GOG: https://www.gog.com/game/independence_war_2 https://www.gog.com/game/independence_war_2 - Highly recommended if you're into space sims.
moscaf 10y ago
I played that version in 1985.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  You did? There was a MMO space trading/combat game in 1985? What was it called?
  - vidarh 10y ago
    There was actually one from '88 at least. Sort of. But text based. Some would consider it a MUD: Federation [1] from IBGames (and its currently still running sequel Federation II. It started on Compunet, moved to GEnie, then AOL, then the web. The guy behind it - Alan Lenton - is a really interesting character. [1] http://ibgames.com/archives/fed/index.html#classic http://ibgames.com/archives/fed/index.html#classic
  - aegirth 10y ago
    Elite originally came out in 1984
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      Elite isn't a MMO game.
Shivetya 10y ago
Privateer would be fun transformed into a MMO, but I don't think graphics are much of an issue these days as you can pretty much scale for need. The issue I see with Elite/Privateer/etc is that its hard to encourage group play which tends to be a near requirement for most MMOs to succeed. If ships are the primary draw how do you group people up? Surely many would not want to just play a specific role or share a ship and even if they did there would be only so many cool positions to go around.
- astrobe_ 10y ago
  > The issue I see with Elite/Privateer/etc is that its hard to encourage group play which tends to be a near requirement for most MMOs to succeed. I don't think it would have to be "massive", multiplayer with a dozen of players or so could be just fine if we talk about coop (aka PvE) only: you could form convoys with escorts, attack/defend bigger objectives than in solo play, etc. Competitive multiplayer (PvP) brings a lot of issues, compromises and downsides; one of them being the ability to customize your game. I casually play Oolite, and it's key feature is precisely the ability to modify almost anything in the game. Those mods for instance let you escort an AI ship or be escorted by AI wingmen, which compensates a bit for the lack of multiplayer. > If ships are the primary draw how do you group people up When you look at it, this genre is not very different from an ARPG: you upgrade your ship just like to equip your character; your ship can be a freighter or a light fighter and it is similar to character classes. If you need more variety you can for instance introduce distinct damage types (energy damage with lasers and kinetic damage for missile) with specific defences (shields vs lasers and armour vs missiles). Or you can reserve certain capabilities like interstellar jumps to certain ships.
stcredzero 10y ago
I'm currently working on an MMO that's in the same spirit but much less graphically ambitious. (2D 1980's "Arcade Space" -- especially vector graphics.) However, it's very ambitious non-graphically. Not only is there a procedurally generated universe of 2^100 locations, there will also be crafting involving a procedurally generated Tech Tree that's just as vast as the world. I'm also planning on incorporating user-scripting of most entities in-game and compiling those scripts to a format which can be subjected to Genetic Algorithms. The scripts and crafted items will be "productized" to be sold or licensed to other players with in-game currency. I currently have a server running on AWS, capable of supporting 70 players comfortably in the same instance, all at the same location. (You get O(n^2) when all ships are in the same location.) The project is called "Emergence Vector." https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev
vityaz_ 10y ago
I've always wanted to play a space mmo with some nice low poly graphics like this for example: http://kennethfejer.deviantart.com/art/lowpoly-spaceship-45010854 http://kennethfejer.deviantart.com/art/lowpoly-spaceship-450... looks cute

kleiba 10y ago

Slightly unrelated: if you're into "3D graphics with a retro vibe", check out "Return of the Obra Dinn" by Lucas Pope (of "Papers, please" fame): https://dukope.itch.io/return-of-the-obra-dinn https://dukope.itch.io/return-of-the-obra-dinn It has nothing to do with Elite or space adventures or anything like that, though.

RBerenguel 10y ago
His development blog is awesome too, I specially liked when he was working out the best way to create effective looking dithering for 3D objects.
- vanderZwan 10y ago
  And then a mathematician who happened to read the blog started to think about it and created a new dithering algorithm just for him[0], which was pretty awesome. [0] https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg1212805#msg1212805 https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg121280...

cstross 10y ago

Doesn't EVE Online scratch that itch for you?

jimmcslim 10y ago
I'm thinking something that still has a meaningful dogfighting experience (like the original Elite - whereas EVE Online when I last played was more like an RTS?) and generally far more accessible. But a 'casual' and accessible mix of Elite and EVE with a MMO persistent universe and retroish graphics is what I have in mind. Whereas the new Elite: Dangerous as impressive as it looks (and I'd love to play it... just don't have a beefy PC or Mac at the moment) misses something I think by not having everyone flying in the same universe (I know the simulation is shared and that there is also a solo play mode available). I've wondered why they didn't adopt a monthly subscription approach to support the servers to make that possible?
- stcredzero 10y ago
  I'm thinking something that still has a meaningful dogfighting experience (like the original Elite - whereas EVE Online when I last played was more like an RTS?) and generally far more accessible. I am working on an MMO that has a meaningful dogfighting experience. It's not twitch and rapid perfect aiming like an FPS. Instead, it's about relative positioning. Also, it's 2D, using an Asteroids flight mechanic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSlpbxv4zZc&list=PLDIbNZGhS5iDSMoDihoU7aXJzOGFRDGGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSlpbxv4zZc&list=PLDIbNZGhS5...
- Eded33 10y ago
  I think that was their fatal mistake. The peer-to-peer networking model has made the game feel lifeless and that none of your actions have a persistent effect. Really wish David B had focused on making a fun solo version of the old game; or a decent online one, not this ... muddle.

jimjimjim 10y ago

yes, a mud version of elite could be quite interesting and without the expense of aaa level graphics.

astrobe_ 10y ago

Not MMO, OOlite can be "retro" with the right options on. Extensions (aka "OXP" or "OXZ" in Oolite lingo) can give you in-station text based activities (the extension is named "Life in the Frontier" IIRC) and planet descriptions, among other things (there are about 400 extensions available from the integrated package manager, not counting older ones that haven't been ported). Extensions are written mostly in Javascript and the community is very friendly and helpful. Last but not least, it's free and open source.

vidarh 10y ago
I second Oolite. And in terms of adding networking, a game following the original Elite model should be fairly "MMO friendly" in that each system is basically closed - players can jump in and out, but there's no continuous flight between systems (unless they've added that to Oolite since I last checked it out), so e.g. scaling it to multiple servers can be done on the star-system level up until there's quite a lot of players. I haven't looked at the extensions mechanism - it'd be interesting if players could "claim" systems and dynamically control gameplay capabilities in their system. Would create challenges with e.g. the economy/trading etc. (preventing users from setting up a server that gives them infinite credits to bring back to other systems) - perhaps that'd actually be a suitable use for a blockchain... (Not that I have time to spend on something like this, but I'll back it in spirit if someone hacks Oolite or similar into a MMO... I might back it with money too if someone where to want to crowdfund something like it)
- stcredzero 10y ago
  but there's no continuous flight between systems I'm working on a game in the spirit of Elite, but with continuous flight between systems, in the spirit of Star Control 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev
  - vidarh 10y ago
    I actually don't really like the continuous flight between systems. I prefer the simplicity of Elite. The massive increase in complexity is one of the reasons I never liked the sequels. But don't pay attention to me - I'm unlikely to be representative when it comes to a gamer audience.

boyce 10y ago

I'd love a modern remake of Space Rogue

Annatar 10y ago
Space Rogue was such an awesome game: it had action, it had (for Commodore64) revolutionary filled 3D vector graphics, but most importantly, it had an involved, mysterious, and compelling story. And it was a challenging game which made one play hard, but it rewarded that with lots of generated Endorphine. Anyone remember getting the neurostabilizer boosters, without the personal shield? That is a game truly worthy of a remake, as is Battle Tech: the Crescent Hawks' inception. I'd also finally like to find my father with his Phoenix Hawk mech in a sequel to that game...

scrollaway 10y ago

I know what you mean. Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos [1] is very representative of that. Unfortunately, it's single player (there is a multiplayer arena but it's not great). A few years ago a friend and I were working on a spiritual successor to EoC. When the Star Citizen kickstarter was announced, we gave up - no chance to compete with that, and we found they could apply our vision with a lot more money and a much more serious team. [1] GOG: https://www.gog.com/game/independence_war_2 https://www.gog.com/game/independence_war_2 - Highly recommended if you're into space sims.

moscaf 10y ago

I played that version in 1985.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
You did? There was a MMO space trading/combat game in 1985? What was it called?
- vidarh 10y ago
  There was actually one from '88 at least. Sort of. But text based. Some would consider it a MUD: Federation [1] from IBGames (and its currently still running sequel Federation II. It started on Compunet, moved to GEnie, then AOL, then the web. The guy behind it - Alan Lenton - is a really interesting character. [1] http://ibgames.com/archives/fed/index.html#classic http://ibgames.com/archives/fed/index.html#classic
- aegirth 10y ago
  Elite originally came out in 1984
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    Elite isn't a MMO game.

Shivetya 10y ago

Privateer would be fun transformed into a MMO, but I don't think graphics are much of an issue these days as you can pretty much scale for need. The issue I see with Elite/Privateer/etc is that its hard to encourage group play which tends to be a near requirement for most MMOs to succeed. If ships are the primary draw how do you group people up? Surely many would not want to just play a specific role or share a ship and even if they did there would be only so many cool positions to go around.

astrobe_ 10y ago
> The issue I see with Elite/Privateer/etc is that its hard to encourage group play which tends to be a near requirement for most MMOs to succeed. I don't think it would have to be "massive", multiplayer with a dozen of players or so could be just fine if we talk about coop (aka PvE) only: you could form convoys with escorts, attack/defend bigger objectives than in solo play, etc. Competitive multiplayer (PvP) brings a lot of issues, compromises and downsides; one of them being the ability to customize your game. I casually play Oolite, and it's key feature is precisely the ability to modify almost anything in the game. Those mods for instance let you escort an AI ship or be escorted by AI wingmen, which compensates a bit for the lack of multiplayer. > If ships are the primary draw how do you group people up When you look at it, this genre is not very different from an ARPG: you upgrade your ship just like to equip your character; your ship can be a freighter or a light fighter and it is similar to character classes. If you need more variety you can for instance introduce distinct damage types (energy damage with lasers and kinetic damage for missile) with specific defences (shields vs lasers and armour vs missiles). Or you can reserve certain capabilities like interstellar jumps to certain ships.

stcredzero 10y ago

I'm currently working on an MMO that's in the same spirit but much less graphically ambitious. (2D 1980's "Arcade Space" -- especially vector graphics.) However, it's very ambitious non-graphically. Not only is there a procedurally generated universe of 2^100 locations, there will also be crafting involving a procedurally generated Tech Tree that's just as vast as the world. I'm also planning on incorporating user-scripting of most entities in-game and compiling those scripts to a format which can be subjected to Genetic Algorithms. The scripts and crafted items will be "productized" to be sold or licensed to other players with in-game currency. I currently have a server running on AWS, capable of supporting 70 players comfortably in the same instance, all at the same location. (You get O(n^2) when all ships are in the same location.) The project is called "Emergence Vector." https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev https://www.reddit.com/r/gogamedev

vityaz_ 10y ago

I've always wanted to play a space mmo with some nice low poly graphics like this for example: http://kennethfejer.deviantart.com/art/lowpoly-spaceship-45010854 http://kennethfejer.deviantart.com/art/lowpoly-spaceship-450... looks cute