3 ms·

Should there be options for smart guys like this to come to America? Absolutely, but let's be realistic; these guys have a few options. They could immigrate to

by matrix 17y ago

Should there be options for smart guys like this to come to America? Absolutely, but let's be realistic; these guys have a few options. They could immigrate to Canada - unlike America, Canada welcomes people with open arms. Forget that rubbish about "all the expertise is in Silicon Valley". There is no shortage of smart, experienced people in other countries. Heck, in Vancouver they would just be a short hop away from the valley if they really must be (although why you'd want to leave Vancouver beats me... think San Francisco, except much nicer). And of course, they could always do this in Holland. Seriously, why not? It's not like a business never became successful in Holland. Personally as someone who is dealing with US immigration bureaucracy, I am opposed to the founder visa because on the very long list of things that need to be fixed with immigration in America and that would also benefit the US economy, this one is item #217. We don't need yet another special interest carveout. No. The system needs to work in the best interests of the nation and to treat people with fairness and dignity. Aiming for anything less is just not even trying.

pp 17y ago
What would be the top 3 items on that list?
- matrix 17y ago
  No doubt that list is different for everyone, but here's mine: 1) Replace employer-sponsored and lottery green cards with a points-based self-petitioning system that can be tuned annually according to the nation's needs. Such a system would award points for basic criteria for age, language, education and experience, with bonus points for experience in occupations for which there are shortages. 2) Eliminate H1B and its byzantine rules, replacing it with a simpler short-term work visa that has a 2 year limit and no renewal. Anything longer in not temporary, and falls in the category above (and if the person does not qualify for 1) then why is it necessary to hire this person and not an American?) 3) Crack down on USCIS backlogs. There is no excuse for it taking years to process visas. Quite apart from the fact that people people's live on hold for that wrong is unjust, it costs American businesses real money. If they need an expert in a certain field, they need it now, not at some indeterminate time.
nearestneighbor 17y ago
Having never been to Vancouver, I'd be curious to know why you think it is nicer than SF. I've heard it's colder than Seattle with a lot of druggies and petty street crime.
- imack 17y ago
  I don't think Vancouver is worse than Seattle in terms of "druggies and street crime", it's just more concentrated and visible. Given the warm climate and concentration of social services, it's a bit of a magnet for transients from all over Canada. Aside from that, I think you can attribute a lot of the differences to the simple fact that Vancouver doesn't have any highways going through it or anywhere near the downtown core. I prefer it to San Fran, but given the 4 degree(C) weather with rain today, I can appreciate someone taking the opposing view.
  - gamble 17y ago
    Vancouver is an odd city for that. You can be in an upscale neighborhood, walk a couple of blocks in the wrong direction, and find yourself in an open-air drug market. Go another block and it's back to normal. OTOH, for sheer number of transients it's hard to beat SF.
imack 17y ago
As a Canadian citizen, part of me wants the "founders visa" to fail because it passing would remove a small advantage we have in a sea of disadvantages. RIM, for example, was not founded by someone born in Canada. I'm not exactly sure what makes it easier to immigrate here, it just seems easier if you have certain education. In a similar thread, Microsoft opened a development office in Vancouver (well, outside of it) more/less because it was easier to bring offshore talent here than to Redmond. Given that it's only a 2 hour drive away, it seemed like a good example of more liberal immigration laws helping out. Although, the net effect of this seems to be that the Canadian office is really just a holding pattern for top talent who can't get an H1-B yet.
- starkfist 17y ago
  I'm not exactly sure what makes it easier to immigrate here, it just seems easier if you have certain education. It's actually not easier, in 80% of the cases it takes 64 months for the visa to process. http://www.canadavisa.com/federal-business-immigration-entrepreneur-processing-times.html http://www.canadavisa.com/federal-business-immigration-entre...
boris 17y ago
They could immigrate to Canada - unlike America, Canada welcomes people with open arms. If you look at the "wait time" for your application (provided you managed to meet all the requirements, which are not trivial, BTW), on average it is about 1.5-2 years. What do you think will happen to these guys' startup/idea if they had to wait for a couple of years before they could start the business in Canada?

by matrix 17y ago

pp 17y ago

What would be the top 3 items on that list?

matrix 17y ago
No doubt that list is different for everyone, but here's mine: 1) Replace employer-sponsored and lottery green cards with a points-based self-petitioning system that can be tuned annually according to the nation's needs. Such a system would award points for basic criteria for age, language, education and experience, with bonus points for experience in occupations for which there are shortages. 2) Eliminate H1B and its byzantine rules, replacing it with a simpler short-term work visa that has a 2 year limit and no renewal. Anything longer in not temporary, and falls in the category above (and if the person does not qualify for 1) then why is it necessary to hire this person and not an American?) 3) Crack down on USCIS backlogs. There is no excuse for it taking years to process visas. Quite apart from the fact that people people's live on hold for that wrong is unjust, it costs American businesses real money. If they need an expert in a certain field, they need it now, not at some indeterminate time.

nearestneighbor 17y ago

Having never been to Vancouver, I'd be curious to know why you think it is nicer than SF. I've heard it's colder than Seattle with a lot of druggies and petty street crime.

imack 17y ago
I don't think Vancouver is worse than Seattle in terms of "druggies and street crime", it's just more concentrated and visible. Given the warm climate and concentration of social services, it's a bit of a magnet for transients from all over Canada. Aside from that, I think you can attribute a lot of the differences to the simple fact that Vancouver doesn't have any highways going through it or anywhere near the downtown core. I prefer it to San Fran, but given the 4 degree(C) weather with rain today, I can appreciate someone taking the opposing view.
- gamble 17y ago
  Vancouver is an odd city for that. You can be in an upscale neighborhood, walk a couple of blocks in the wrong direction, and find yourself in an open-air drug market. Go another block and it's back to normal. OTOH, for sheer number of transients it's hard to beat SF.

imack 17y ago

As a Canadian citizen, part of me wants the "founders visa" to fail because it passing would remove a small advantage we have in a sea of disadvantages. RIM, for example, was not founded by someone born in Canada. I'm not exactly sure what makes it easier to immigrate here, it just seems easier if you have certain education. In a similar thread, Microsoft opened a development office in Vancouver (well, outside of it) more/less because it was easier to bring offshore talent here than to Redmond. Given that it's only a 2 hour drive away, it seemed like a good example of more liberal immigration laws helping out. Although, the net effect of this seems to be that the Canadian office is really just a holding pattern for top talent who can't get an H1-B yet.

starkfist 17y ago
I'm not exactly sure what makes it easier to immigrate here, it just seems easier if you have certain education. It's actually not easier, in 80% of the cases it takes 64 months for the visa to process. http://www.canadavisa.com/federal-business-immigration-entrepreneur-processing-times.html http://www.canadavisa.com/federal-business-immigration-entre...

boris 17y ago

They could immigrate to Canada - unlike America, Canada welcomes people with open arms. If you look at the "wait time" for your application (provided you managed to meet all the requirements, which are not trivial, BTW), on average it is about 1.5-2 years. What do you think will happen to these guys' startup/idea if they had to wait for a couple of years before they could start the business in Canada?