6 ms·

The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011)

108 points by _acme 10y ago

digi_owl 10y ago
I suspect unix at this point in time is a "my grandfathers axe" kind of thing. The concepts are there, and a lineage may be traced, but little of the original parts still exists. This because the basic concepts that define unix allows it to be modular and adaptable.
- bigger_cheese 10y ago
  Neal Stephenson's analogy from 'In the Beginning was the Command Line' is pretty good: "Unix, by contrast, is not so much a product as it is a painstakingly compiled oral history of the hacker subculture. It is our Gilgamesh epic. What made old epics like Gilgamesh so powerful and so long-lived was that they were living bodies of narrative that many people knew by heart, and told over and over again--making their own personal embellishments whenever it struck their fancy. The bad embellishments were shouted down, the good ones picked up by others, polished, improved, and, over time, incorporated into the story. Likewise, Unix is known, loved, and understood by so many hackers that it can be re-created from scratch whenever someone needs it."
  - tapan_k 10y ago
    Here's one from the book The Art of UNIX Programming[0]: "The Unix philosophy is bottom-up and not top-down. It is pragmatic and grounded in experience." [0] http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Programming-Addison-Wesley-Professional-Computng/dp/0131429019 http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Programming-Addison-Wesley-Profes...
    - emmelaich 10y ago
      Predating those two are: UNIX as literature http://theody.net/elements.html http://theody.net/elements.html Life with UNIX by Don Libes http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Books/Life_with_Unix.pdf http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Books/Life_with... (from the author's website)
      - smhenderson 10y ago
        I'm only part way through the 1st chapter but the Don Libes book is quite good. Having been written in 1989 it's an interesting perspective of Unix before Linux. Thanks for sharing!
      - vram22 10y ago
        Started reading the Don Libes book, good stuff, brings back memories of my Unix work / days; thanks for sharing.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      > "The Unix philosophy is bottom-up and not top-down. It is pragmatic and grounded in experience." Something that seems to be lost on a solid portion of the current custodians of that legacy...
    - vram22 10y ago
      That book - TAOUP - is quite good, though written in ESR's typical style (somewhat heavy and maybe overuse of relatively complex and less-used words). One concept or principle mentioned in the book - the X Windows concept - of "provide mechanism, not policy" [1] - is, IMO, one of the reasons for Unix's longevity and success, even as it has morphed through various versions - from the original Bell Labs ones through Sun, HP, IBM's versions, and then Linux, the BSDs, etc., and up to Android and Mac OS X and iOS. I commented somewhere recently on a blog post about this. [1] To make it clear, the principle name is slightly misleading. It does not mean "don't provide at all". It just means, let the lower layers of a software stack (such as X Windows) provide only the mechanism, and leave it to higher layers (such as, say, KDE or GNOME), to decide the policy. Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_mechanism_and_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_mechanism_and_po...
- ktRolster 10y ago
  "The API is more important than the implementation." If you extend the definition of API to include things like standard command line tools, etc
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- sigill 10y ago
  Unix history certainly has aspects of the "grandfather's axe". Few users of unixoid systems today are running original 70ies Unix code. But Unix is not just code. The concepts introduced by Unix - or at least the flavor given to certain concepts - lives on to this day. Basically all of the userspace-kernel interface, the system calls, are still there and work in largely the same way. These concepts and interfaces are parts of the axe too and they haven't been replaced.
  - Zardoz84 10y ago
    C is the language of the virtual machine know as Unix.
- jrcii 10y ago
  If I'm not mistaken there's still a lot of the original Unix code in the BSD distros, but I haven't studied it enough to be sure of that.
  - uudecode 10y ago
    Not sure about "original" as in AT&T, but certainly lots of files going back to the 80's and 90's. Lots of Sun's legacy to be found.
- simonh 10y ago
  I think being a Unix is analogous to being a member of the set of axes, rather than any specific unix implementation or install, which would be equivalent to a specific axe.
  - avn2109 10y ago
    "... Unix is not just an operating system, but also a style of approaching problems." [0] http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
emmelaich 10y ago
Needs a (2011)
- dang 10y ago
  Thanks, added.
rdiddly 10y ago
The Linus myth makes an appearance. Nobody's heard of GNU.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  Yeah, it's mind-blowing that a guy who refers to himself as a "UNIX Historian" doesn't mention Stallman even once.
  - cperciva 10y ago
    Maybe because GNU's, uhh, Not Unix?
    - ploxiln 10y ago
      wink wink, nudge nudge ... say no more!
    - gohrt 10y ago
      Linux Isn't No UniX either.
    - umanwizard 10y ago
      Well, the author claims that Linus Torvalds single-handedly created an operating system; which simply isn't true, regardless of whether GNU is Unix.
      - olalonde 10y ago
        Didn't Linus develop the first versions of the Linux kernel by himself?
        creshal 10y ago
        A kernel does not make an operating system, you need an userland for it to be useful. And that was GNU.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kgr 10y ago
This video shows how Unix was mathematically more efficient than Multics, which goes a very long way at explaining its success and longevity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ea3pkTCYx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ea3pkTCYx4
smhenderson 10y ago
Great read, another link along side under Related... http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/inventing-unix http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/inventing-unix Also very entertaining. RIP Mr. Ritchie! edit: wrong link, too many tabs. :-)
xufi 10y ago
I find UNIX amazing. What Thompson, Ritchie and McIllroy did was invaluable to the world of computing . I'm still to get well versed about the early days of it but its amazing how it transcended down to modern day

108 points by _acme 10y ago

I suspect unix at this point in time is a "my grandfathers axe" kind of thing. The concepts are there, and a lineage may be traced, but little of the original parts still exists. This because the basic concepts that define unix allows it to be modular and adaptable.

bigger_cheese 10y ago
Neal Stephenson's analogy from 'In the Beginning was the Command Line' is pretty good: "Unix, by contrast, is not so much a product as it is a painstakingly compiled oral history of the hacker subculture. It is our Gilgamesh epic. What made old epics like Gilgamesh so powerful and so long-lived was that they were living bodies of narrative that many people knew by heart, and told over and over again--making their own personal embellishments whenever it struck their fancy. The bad embellishments were shouted down, the good ones picked up by others, polished, improved, and, over time, incorporated into the story. Likewise, Unix is known, loved, and understood by so many hackers that it can be re-created from scratch whenever someone needs it."
- tapan_k 10y ago
  Here's one from the book The Art of UNIX Programming[0]: "The Unix philosophy is bottom-up and not top-down. It is pragmatic and grounded in experience." [0] http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Programming-Addison-Wesley-Professional-Computng/dp/0131429019 http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Programming-Addison-Wesley-Profes...
  - emmelaich 10y ago
    Predating those two are: UNIX as literature http://theody.net/elements.html http://theody.net/elements.html Life with UNIX by Don Libes http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Books/Life_with_Unix.pdf http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Books/Life_with... (from the author's website)
    - smhenderson 10y ago
      I'm only part way through the 1st chapter but the Don Libes book is quite good. Having been written in 1989 it's an interesting perspective of Unix before Linux. Thanks for sharing!
    - vram22 10y ago
      Started reading the Don Libes book, good stuff, brings back memories of my Unix work / days; thanks for sharing.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    > "The Unix philosophy is bottom-up and not top-down. It is pragmatic and grounded in experience." Something that seems to be lost on a solid portion of the current custodians of that legacy...
  - vram22 10y ago
    That book - TAOUP - is quite good, though written in ESR's typical style (somewhat heavy and maybe overuse of relatively complex and less-used words). One concept or principle mentioned in the book - the X Windows concept - of "provide mechanism, not policy" [1] - is, IMO, one of the reasons for Unix's longevity and success, even as it has morphed through various versions - from the original Bell Labs ones through Sun, HP, IBM's versions, and then Linux, the BSDs, etc., and up to Android and Mac OS X and iOS. I commented somewhere recently on a blog post about this. [1] To make it clear, the principle name is slightly misleading. It does not mean "don't provide at all". It just means, let the lower layers of a software stack (such as X Windows) provide only the mechanism, and leave it to higher layers (such as, say, KDE or GNOME), to decide the policy. Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_mechanism_and_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_mechanism_and_po...
ktRolster 10y ago
"The API is more important than the implementation." If you extend the definition of API to include things like standard command line tools, etc
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
sigill 10y ago
Unix history certainly has aspects of the "grandfather's axe". Few users of unixoid systems today are running original 70ies Unix code. But Unix is not just code. The concepts introduced by Unix - or at least the flavor given to certain concepts - lives on to this day. Basically all of the userspace-kernel interface, the system calls, are still there and work in largely the same way. These concepts and interfaces are parts of the axe too and they haven't been replaced.
- Zardoz84 10y ago
  C is the language of the virtual machine know as Unix.
jrcii 10y ago
If I'm not mistaken there's still a lot of the original Unix code in the BSD distros, but I haven't studied it enough to be sure of that.
- uudecode 10y ago
  Not sure about "original" as in AT&T, but certainly lots of files going back to the 80's and 90's. Lots of Sun's legacy to be found.
simonh 10y ago
I think being a Unix is analogous to being a member of the set of axes, rather than any specific unix implementation or install, which would be equivalent to a specific axe.
- avn2109 10y ago
  "... Unix is not just an operating system, but also a style of approaching problems." [0] http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

emmelaich 10y ago

Needs a (2011)

dang 10y ago
Thanks, added.

rdiddly 10y ago

The Linus myth makes an appearance. Nobody's heard of GNU.

umanwizard 10y ago
Yeah, it's mind-blowing that a guy who refers to himself as a "UNIX Historian" doesn't mention Stallman even once.
- cperciva 10y ago
  Maybe because GNU's, uhh, Not Unix?
  - ploxiln 10y ago
    wink wink, nudge nudge ... say no more!
  - gohrt 10y ago
    Linux Isn't No UniX either.
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    Well, the author claims that Linus Torvalds single-handedly created an operating system; which simply isn't true, regardless of whether GNU is Unix.
    - olalonde 10y ago
      Didn't Linus develop the first versions of the Linux kernel by himself?
      - creshal 10y ago
        A kernel does not make an operating system, you need an userland for it to be useful. And that was GNU.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kgr 10y ago

This video shows how Unix was mathematically more efficient than Multics, which goes a very long way at explaining its success and longevity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ea3pkTCYx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ea3pkTCYx4

smhenderson 10y ago

Great read, another link along side under Related... http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/inventing-unix http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/inventing-unix Also very entertaining. RIP Mr. Ritchie! edit: wrong link, too many tabs. :-)

xufi 10y ago

I find UNIX amazing. What Thompson, Ritchie and McIllroy did was invaluable to the world of computing . I'm still to get well versed about the early days of it but its amazing how it transcended down to modern day