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Here's a fun little video from the manufacturer extolling the virtues and showing a demo of their device: https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7NYI https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7

Here's a fun little video from the manufacturer extolling the virtues and showing a demo of their device: https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7NYI https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7NYI These are some truly evil people. Apparently they can only target prepaid cards with this thing, which unsurprisingly will disproportionately affect people with lower incomes (the "unbanked"). According to the manufacturer's FAQ [1]: Intel™ and ERAD-Recovery™ will only retrieve balances from open loop prepaid debit cards. Debit cards attached to a valid checking account or valid credit cards cannot be processed using the ERAD-Intel™ or ERAD-Recovery™ system. Law enforcement already depends heavily upon lower income neighborhoods to justify their existence, and upon criminal convictions of poor people that can't defend themselves to keep up demand for prison and jail guards. Now they want to take the money of those they can't arrest, knowing that their targets cannot afford to hire lawyers to get it back. [1] https://www.erad-group.com/faqs https://www.erad-group.com/faqs

adrr 10y ago
I wonder if it works on payroll cards that many low income people get in lieu of a traditional payday check. They are very similar to prepaid debit cards.
- downandout 10y ago
  In almost cases, payroll cards are just prepaid cards that an employer has setup with a given prepaid card company for employees that don't have bank accounts, so yes.
  - adrr 10y ago
    Scary. These prepaid debit cards are being used everywhere in lieu of traditional checks from unemployment benefits, short term disability(maternity benefits) etc.
    - orbitingpluto 10y ago
      The thing that I don't understand is that these prepaid debit cards are only loaded from the government or your employer, hence guaranteeing the money is legal. Yet these cards are what is being targeted, because only the poor use them.
      - tamana 10y ago
        What's not to understand? Money is money, it spends just as well regardless of who gave it to you.
        orbitingpluto 10y ago
        These cards are predatory because they have fees to withdraw, fees to not have the card expire and your money go poof, and even fees to even check your balance. Some states have enacted laws (Illinois is one I believe) that prohibits employers using these cards if the employee does not wish to use one. Employers use these cards because the debit card providers are willing to take on the cost of payroll for the privilege of gouging the employees in fees.
        orbitingpluto 10y ago
        Why is this being downvoted? I guess a couple of you pay your employees in this manner?
        Delmania 10y ago
        From your previous post: > Yet these cards are what is being targeted, because only the poor use them. Same reason as this: >Employers use these cards because the debit card providers are willing to take on the cost of payroll for the privilege of gouging the employees in fees. The poor do not have the ability to fight back, and their employers have the resources to make sure the gov't does not shut these things down and require proper paychecks. Never underestimate the rich's ability to exploit the poor.
    - earlz 10y ago
      Yep, grew up and have friends/family in Oklahoma. Disability and unemployment benefits come on prepaid cards, as well as tax refunds. Most ATMs charge a fee to check balance, and a separate fee to withdraw money as cash. These cards do usually have a free phone number you can call to check balance, but you almost always have to pay a fee for withdrawal. And if you have, say, $19 on the card, it's effectively impossible to get that out as cash, because no ATM lets you withdraw in less than $20 increments. Also, most blue-collar and minimum wage jobs use prepaid cards. At least companies like McDonald's as well as various factory jobs do. For McDonald's, according to friends at least, there is no option for anything else. Even if you have a bank account, you can't do direct deposit, you still get a prepaid debit card that your paycheck goes to.
  - downandout 10y ago
    Just noticed my typo, but its too late to fix. I was torn between "almost all cases" and "most cases" and wound up with "almost cases" lol.
  - emkman 10y ago
    Actually, they aren't the same. Payroll debit cards are protected by certain provisions that don't apply to GPR (general purpose reloadable) debit cards. Thankfully they have fewer predatory fees and it's required that 100% of the pay amount is put on the card. They can still be subject to very high ATM fees, and possibly inactivity fees (since the provider doesn't earn any interchange fees if the card isn't swiped. I can't recall all the details but I looked into implementing both versions at a previous job.
cornchips 10y ago
Yes, evil. As is Sergeant Rob Hain (of Chicago) who uploaded this... "Sheriff's Deputy Ron Hain improperly detained Marsh after issuing him a warning and continued questioning him when he should have been free to leave, Barsanti ruled. The questioning led to Marsh's admission he was carrying a gun, which prompted further searches of his truck, phones, GPS and eventually the storage lockers." "The discovery was made by exploiting the defendant's Fourth Amendment rights," Barsanti said. "He was illegally detained in a second seizure without cause." [1] "Seized over 4,000 lbs of cannabis, over 50 kilograms of cocaine, over 50 kilograms of heroin, and over $1,000,000 of drug-related currency." [2] 1 https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160406/news/160409204/ https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160406/news/160409204/ 2 https://archive.is/Bf1ss https://archive.is/Bf1ss
- downandout 10y ago
  From [1]....“All of our home towns are sitting on a tax-liberating gold mine,” Deputy Ron Hain of Kane County, Ill., wrote in a self-published book under a pseudonym. Hain is a marketing specialist for Desert Snow, a leading interdiction training firm based in Guthrie, Okla., whose founders also created Black Asphalt. Desert Snow created civil forfeiture training seminars for law enforcement. Black Asphalt is a system "that enabled police nationwide to share detailed reports about American motorists — criminals and the innocent alike — including their Social Security numbers, addresses and identifying tattoos, as well as hunches about which drivers to stop." Now, he's stealing debit cards. This guy is quite the civil forfeiture innovator. [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/st...
  - cornchips 10y ago
    Owning a business related and supposedly selling to law enforcement while being employed by the force... Conflict of interest, anyone?
    - slavik81 10y ago
      That's probably only a conflict on interest if they are involved in making purchasing decisions. Your mileage may vary. Always ask your ethics councillor.
walrus01 10y ago
> will only retrieve balances from open loop prepaid debit cards so the poor get fucked two ways: 1) these prepaid debit cards have a lot of fees and service charges associated with them, they're basically in the same financial category for the "unbanked" as predatory payday loans, check cashing places and other financial services retail operations you see in a ghetto. 2) the people who have these cards with some balance on them risk getting all their money jacked by the local police.

adrr 10y ago

I wonder if it works on payroll cards that many low income people get in lieu of a traditional payday check. They are very similar to prepaid debit cards.

downandout 10y ago
In almost cases, payroll cards are just prepaid cards that an employer has setup with a given prepaid card company for employees that don't have bank accounts, so yes.
- adrr 10y ago
  Scary. These prepaid debit cards are being used everywhere in lieu of traditional checks from unemployment benefits, short term disability(maternity benefits) etc.
  - orbitingpluto 10y ago
    The thing that I don't understand is that these prepaid debit cards are only loaded from the government or your employer, hence guaranteeing the money is legal. Yet these cards are what is being targeted, because only the poor use them.
    - tamana 10y ago
      What's not to understand? Money is money, it spends just as well regardless of who gave it to you.
      - orbitingpluto 10y ago
        These cards are predatory because they have fees to withdraw, fees to not have the card expire and your money go poof, and even fees to even check your balance. Some states have enacted laws (Illinois is one I believe) that prohibits employers using these cards if the employee does not wish to use one. Employers use these cards because the debit card providers are willing to take on the cost of payroll for the privilege of gouging the employees in fees.
        orbitingpluto 10y ago
        Why is this being downvoted? I guess a couple of you pay your employees in this manner?
        Delmania 10y ago
        From your previous post: > Yet these cards are what is being targeted, because only the poor use them. Same reason as this: >Employers use these cards because the debit card providers are willing to take on the cost of payroll for the privilege of gouging the employees in fees. The poor do not have the ability to fight back, and their employers have the resources to make sure the gov't does not shut these things down and require proper paychecks. Never underestimate the rich's ability to exploit the poor.
  - earlz 10y ago
    Yep, grew up and have friends/family in Oklahoma. Disability and unemployment benefits come on prepaid cards, as well as tax refunds. Most ATMs charge a fee to check balance, and a separate fee to withdraw money as cash. These cards do usually have a free phone number you can call to check balance, but you almost always have to pay a fee for withdrawal. And if you have, say, $19 on the card, it's effectively impossible to get that out as cash, because no ATM lets you withdraw in less than $20 increments. Also, most blue-collar and minimum wage jobs use prepaid cards. At least companies like McDonald's as well as various factory jobs do. For McDonald's, according to friends at least, there is no option for anything else. Even if you have a bank account, you can't do direct deposit, you still get a prepaid debit card that your paycheck goes to.
- downandout 10y ago
  Just noticed my typo, but its too late to fix. I was torn between "almost all cases" and "most cases" and wound up with "almost cases" lol.
- emkman 10y ago
  Actually, they aren't the same. Payroll debit cards are protected by certain provisions that don't apply to GPR (general purpose reloadable) debit cards. Thankfully they have fewer predatory fees and it's required that 100% of the pay amount is put on the card. They can still be subject to very high ATM fees, and possibly inactivity fees (since the provider doesn't earn any interchange fees if the card isn't swiped. I can't recall all the details but I looked into implementing both versions at a previous job.

cornchips 10y ago

Yes, evil. As is Sergeant Rob Hain (of Chicago) who uploaded this... "Sheriff's Deputy Ron Hain improperly detained Marsh after issuing him a warning and continued questioning him when he should have been free to leave, Barsanti ruled. The questioning led to Marsh's admission he was carrying a gun, which prompted further searches of his truck, phones, GPS and eventually the storage lockers." "The discovery was made by exploiting the defendant's Fourth Amendment rights," Barsanti said. "He was illegally detained in a second seizure without cause." [1] "Seized over 4,000 lbs of cannabis, over 50 kilograms of cocaine, over 50 kilograms of heroin, and over $1,000,000 of drug-related currency." [2] 1 https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160406/news/160409204/ https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160406/news/160409204/ 2 https://archive.is/Bf1ss https://archive.is/Bf1ss

downandout 10y ago
From [1]....“All of our home towns are sitting on a tax-liberating gold mine,” Deputy Ron Hain of Kane County, Ill., wrote in a self-published book under a pseudonym. Hain is a marketing specialist for Desert Snow, a leading interdiction training firm based in Guthrie, Okla., whose founders also created Black Asphalt. Desert Snow created civil forfeiture training seminars for law enforcement. Black Asphalt is a system "that enabled police nationwide to share detailed reports about American motorists — criminals and the innocent alike — including their Social Security numbers, addresses and identifying tattoos, as well as hunches about which drivers to stop." Now, he's stealing debit cards. This guy is quite the civil forfeiture innovator. [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/st...
- cornchips 10y ago
  Owning a business related and supposedly selling to law enforcement while being employed by the force... Conflict of interest, anyone?
  - slavik81 10y ago
    That's probably only a conflict on interest if they are involved in making purchasing decisions. Your mileage may vary. Always ask your ethics councillor.

walrus01 10y ago

> will only retrieve balances from open loop prepaid debit cards so the poor get fucked two ways: 1) these prepaid debit cards have a lot of fees and service charges associated with them, they're basically in the same financial category for the "unbanked" as predatory payday loans, check cashing places and other financial services retail operations you see in a ghetto. 2) the people who have these cards with some balance on them risk getting all their money jacked by the local police.