3 ms·

Seems like a potential incentive for those with national security-related inventions to stay away from the USPTO altogether, and rely on trade secrecy instead.

jandrewrogers 10y ago
The caveat is that something similar applies to trade secrets as well, it is just much more difficult for the government to monitor than patent filings. It is difficult to deem a technology as a national security secret if it is only noticed after it is being sold commercially.
- zekevermillion 10y ago
  Aha, that makes sense. I suppose even if you keep something a trade secret, if you're out there selling stealth-detecting radar interpreters then the guvmint will find out and come see what you're up to. But the crazy inventor in his garage is not going to be able to commercialize it himself.
trhway 10y ago
i'd think that it is the other way - in parallel with filing of a patent application you can just publish it on the Internet thus making any application of secrecy to it pointless (until of course publishing of such info is in violation of some already existing law in the first place). "national security-related inventions" - it is a pretty vague notion. Anybody who saw real "national interest" Green Card applications can attest to it :) All China driving Priuses or Teslas would make China much more [energy] independent and this definitely would be related to US national security. Does it mean that such patents and technology should be made controlled or even secret?
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  publishing it on the internet prevents protection for you to make money off it. Charitable yes, but not exactly in their interests.
  - spbaar 10y ago
    Aren't patent applications public?
    - zekevermillion 10y ago
      Not for 18 months, but the applicant can request earlier release. 35 U.S.C. 122 Confidential status of applications; publication of patent applications. * (b) PUBLICATION.— (1) IN GENERAL.— (A) Subject to paragraph (2), each application for a patent shall be published, in accordance with procedures determined by the Director, promptly after the expiration of a period of 18 months from the earliest filing date for which a benefit is sought under this title. At the request of the applicant, an application may be published earlier than the end of such 18-month period. ... (2) EXCEPTIONS.— (A) An application shall not be published if that application is— ... (ii) subject to a secrecy order under section 181 ;
  - trhway 10y ago
    >publishing it on the internet prevents protection for you to make money off it. no. You have 1 year since first public disclosure to file for actual patent.
- zekevermillion 10y ago
  If you publish the invention, then you will not be able to obtain patent protection for it, generally speaking. Perhaps the statute and rules have a more precise definition of "national security" in this case. But I think the objection is that, like national security letters and other such secret state tools, it is difficult to figure out what forum there is for you to argue with the government over their interpretation of the law. Still, I don't see how we can get around having some sort of non-public mechanism for the military to suppress disclosure of defense tech.
  - ridgeguy 10y ago
    OP said "...in parallel with filing of a patent application you can just publish it...". I think he means that upon filing the patent application, one publishes what one has filed to mitigate the return to the government from classifying the invention as secret. This would not impair the patentability of the invention. Patent applications (in the US) are published 18 months after their earliest filing date [1] unless the applicant requests earlier publication. The applicant's chances of receiving a patent are unchanged by publishing the invention after the application is filed. A downside could be that should the patent application fail, or be withdrawn by the applicant, the invention falls in the public domain because it's been published and no patent protection issued. [1] http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1120.html http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1120.html
AndrewKemendo 10y ago
Generally speaking better to go that route anyway.

jandrewrogers 10y ago

The caveat is that something similar applies to trade secrets as well, it is just much more difficult for the government to monitor than patent filings. It is difficult to deem a technology as a national security secret if it is only noticed after it is being sold commercially.

zekevermillion 10y ago
Aha, that makes sense. I suppose even if you keep something a trade secret, if you're out there selling stealth-detecting radar interpreters then the guvmint will find out and come see what you're up to. But the crazy inventor in his garage is not going to be able to commercialize it himself.

trhway 10y ago

i'd think that it is the other way - in parallel with filing of a patent application you can just publish it on the Internet thus making any application of secrecy to it pointless (until of course publishing of such info is in violation of some already existing law in the first place). "national security-related inventions" - it is a pretty vague notion. Anybody who saw real "national interest" Green Card applications can attest to it :) All China driving Priuses or Teslas would make China much more [energy] independent and this definitely would be related to US national security. Does it mean that such patents and technology should be made controlled or even secret?

Normal_gaussian 10y ago
publishing it on the internet prevents protection for you to make money off it. Charitable yes, but not exactly in their interests.
- spbaar 10y ago
  Aren't patent applications public?
  - zekevermillion 10y ago
    Not for 18 months, but the applicant can request earlier release. 35 U.S.C. 122 Confidential status of applications; publication of patent applications. * (b) PUBLICATION.— (1) IN GENERAL.— (A) Subject to paragraph (2), each application for a patent shall be published, in accordance with procedures determined by the Director, promptly after the expiration of a period of 18 months from the earliest filing date for which a benefit is sought under this title. At the request of the applicant, an application may be published earlier than the end of such 18-month period. ... (2) EXCEPTIONS.— (A) An application shall not be published if that application is— ... (ii) subject to a secrecy order under section 181 ;
- trhway 10y ago
  >publishing it on the internet prevents protection for you to make money off it. no. You have 1 year since first public disclosure to file for actual patent.
zekevermillion 10y ago
If you publish the invention, then you will not be able to obtain patent protection for it, generally speaking. Perhaps the statute and rules have a more precise definition of "national security" in this case. But I think the objection is that, like national security letters and other such secret state tools, it is difficult to figure out what forum there is for you to argue with the government over their interpretation of the law. Still, I don't see how we can get around having some sort of non-public mechanism for the military to suppress disclosure of defense tech.
- ridgeguy 10y ago
  OP said "...in parallel with filing of a patent application you can just publish it...". I think he means that upon filing the patent application, one publishes what one has filed to mitigate the return to the government from classifying the invention as secret. This would not impair the patentability of the invention. Patent applications (in the US) are published 18 months after their earliest filing date [1] unless the applicant requests earlier publication. The applicant's chances of receiving a patent are unchanged by publishing the invention after the application is filed. A downside could be that should the patent application fail, or be withdrawn by the applicant, the invention falls in the public domain because it's been published and no patent protection issued. [1] http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1120.html http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1120.html

AndrewKemendo 10y ago

Generally speaking better to go that route anyway.