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Thinking Machine 6: Play chess against a transparent intelligence

61 points by gwulf 10y ago

danvoell 10y ago
I love the idea. Not sure if it is the best visual. What does a strong line mean versus a thin line? Does it mean you are thinking real hard about that route? I know it would be much more effort but it would be interesting to read what it is thinking. Which piece is it trying to get in the short term. What is the long-term rational.
- TylerE 10y ago
  What bugs me the most is that it doesn't use anything even resembling standard iconography for the pieces.
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm likely not going to be able to keep track of the pieces after a few moves.
  - 2bitencryption 10y ago
    funny how in the quest to make the icons "simple," they lost all meaning, making them insanely complicated.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
light_hue_1 10y ago
Would be more interesting if it actually played chess. I mated it, it captured my queen with its king, I captured its king with a pawn, and then it declared a draw. The end result: http://imgur.com/WoFSJcr http://imgur.com/WoFSJcr People should polish a little more before releasing these things. Who knows what the visualization means if the rules are this broken.
- Declanomous 10y ago
  That sounds a lot like playing any game with a young child. The difference is you can't correct a game-playing AI when it doesn't follow the rules. So in a way it's a lot like playing a game with a young child after you've stopped caring about the rules.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  Multiple people on /r/chess are saying it also castles its way out of check (which is, of course, also illegal).
- Angostura 10y ago
  I'd find it more enjoyable if I could remember what pieces the abstract shapes represent.
  - gjm11 10y ago
    They're reasonably evocative (both of the pieces' actual nature and of the traditional shapes used for them), I think. The rook/castle, which moves orthogonally, is represented by a square made out of orthogonal lines. The bishop, which moves diagonally and traditionally has a kinda-triangular mitre on its head, is represented by a triangle with diagonal lines for sides. The knight, which moves in a funny way and is traditionally shown as a sort of horse's head, is represented by a quarter-circle which is unlike all the other shapes (less symmetrical, mix of straight and curved lines) and actually quite similar in outline to the traditional horse's head. The king, which is usually shown with a cross on its head, is represented by a cross. The queen, which moves like a king but more so and which is usually shown with a many-pointed crown on its head, is represented by a many-pointed star (a bit like that crown, and also a bit like the king only more so). And the pawns, which are weaker than all the other pieces and traditionally smaller than the others, are represented by little circles, smaller than the other pieces.
    - sheepleherd 10y ago
      it's like you are explaining how somebody can invent a new alphabet that is "evocative" so we should accept using it instead of the alphabet we already know. or to put it another way, Staunton.
Animats 10y ago
That's cute. It's running in the browser as ordinary JavaScript, not on a remote server. Unfortunately, Firefox 46 crashed about 20 moves into a game.
clickok 10y ago
I really liked this. Understanding what the AI is doing is usually something that comes with experience and a bit of analysis, but a good visualization can act as a shortcut to intuition. And this one in particular was nicely designed.
psuter 10y ago
I feel like the AI is particularly intelligent in its use of lines to distract me. Fun visualization otherwise, even though it's a little hard to really understand what's going on. At least I can tell which moves are not considered.
- sheepleherd 10y ago
  what would make it much better along those lines (are you listening designers?) would be if it drew its thinking lines on the board but under the pieces. because I can't study the board while it's thinking (it obscures all the pieces) I can't quickly learn if its lines are interesting or not
pybolt 10y ago
I think I broke your program. Its my turn and I should be able to take the King but the game keeps on going: http://imgur.com/ZLbHaLK http://imgur.com/ZLbHaLK
catnaroek 10y ago
This AI is very stupid. Here's our game, I played white: > 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 Nxe4 It's well known that the correct move here is 3...d6. > 4.Qe2 d5 5.d3 Bb4+ Black could still limit its material losses to just a pawn with 5...Qe7. > 6.c3 Bd6 7.Nf3 0-0 8.dxe4 dxe4 9.Nd4 Nd7 10.Nd2 f5 Completely inexplicable. > 11.Ne6 Qh4 12.g3 Qe7 13.Nxf8 Kxf8 My pieces are still a little stuck, but I'm a full rook up! To my surprise, black was very happy to exchange pieces. The main thing that delayed the final result was my own imprecision. > 14.Nc4 Bc5 15.h4 Ne5 16.Nxe5 Qxe5 17.Bf4 Qe7 18.0-0-0 Bd6 19.Bxd6 cxd6 20.Qd2 Be6 21.Qxd6 Qxd6 22.Rxd6 Bxa2 23.Bh3 g6 24.g4 fxg4 25.Bxg4 h5 26.Bh3 Bf7 27.Re1 Re8 28.Rd7 Be6 29.Bxe6 Rxe6 30.Rxb7 a6 31.Rb4 Rf6 32.Re2 e3 33.fxe3 Rc1+ 34.Kc2 Kg8 35.Rg2 Rf6 36.Rb7 Rd6 37.Rd2 Rxd2+ 38.Kxd2 a5 39.e4 a4 40.Ke3 Kh8 41.Kf4 Kg8 42.Kg5 Kf8 43.Kxg6 Ke8 44.Kf6 Kd8 45.Ke6 Kc8 46.Rh7 Kb8 47.Kd6 Ka8 48.Kc6 Kb8 49.e5 Kc8 50.Rh8#
- sheepleherd 10y ago
  I think they wanted you to notice the design and the thinking lines. They didn't set out to invent the world's best chess player.
  - catnaroek 10y ago
    In practice, I didn't notice the thinking lines, and I didn't even see the board itself. The author should've displayed the thinking lines on a separate, perhaps smaller, board on the side.

61 points by gwulf 10y ago

I love the idea. Not sure if it is the best visual. What does a strong line mean versus a thin line? Does it mean you are thinking real hard about that route? I know it would be much more effort but it would be interesting to read what it is thinking. Which piece is it trying to get in the short term. What is the long-term rational.

TylerE 10y ago
What bugs me the most is that it doesn't use anything even resembling standard iconography for the pieces.
- dragontamer 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm likely not going to be able to keep track of the pieces after a few moves.
- 2bitencryption 10y ago
  funny how in the quest to make the icons "simple," they lost all meaning, making them insanely complicated.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

light_hue_1 10y ago

Would be more interesting if it actually played chess. I mated it, it captured my queen with its king, I captured its king with a pawn, and then it declared a draw. The end result: http://imgur.com/WoFSJcr http://imgur.com/WoFSJcr People should polish a little more before releasing these things. Who knows what the visualization means if the rules are this broken.

Declanomous 10y ago
That sounds a lot like playing any game with a young child. The difference is you can't correct a game-playing AI when it doesn't follow the rules. So in a way it's a lot like playing a game with a young child after you've stopped caring about the rules.
ubernostrum 10y ago
Multiple people on /r/chess are saying it also castles its way out of check (which is, of course, also illegal).
Angostura 10y ago
I'd find it more enjoyable if I could remember what pieces the abstract shapes represent.
- gjm11 10y ago
  They're reasonably evocative (both of the pieces' actual nature and of the traditional shapes used for them), I think. The rook/castle, which moves orthogonally, is represented by a square made out of orthogonal lines. The bishop, which moves diagonally and traditionally has a kinda-triangular mitre on its head, is represented by a triangle with diagonal lines for sides. The knight, which moves in a funny way and is traditionally shown as a sort of horse's head, is represented by a quarter-circle which is unlike all the other shapes (less symmetrical, mix of straight and curved lines) and actually quite similar in outline to the traditional horse's head. The king, which is usually shown with a cross on its head, is represented by a cross. The queen, which moves like a king but more so and which is usually shown with a many-pointed crown on its head, is represented by a many-pointed star (a bit like that crown, and also a bit like the king only more so). And the pawns, which are weaker than all the other pieces and traditionally smaller than the others, are represented by little circles, smaller than the other pieces.
  - sheepleherd 10y ago
    it's like you are explaining how somebody can invent a new alphabet that is "evocative" so we should accept using it instead of the alphabet we already know. or to put it another way, Staunton.

Animats 10y ago

That's cute. It's running in the browser as ordinary JavaScript, not on a remote server. Unfortunately, Firefox 46 crashed about 20 moves into a game.

clickok 10y ago

I really liked this. Understanding what the AI is doing is usually something that comes with experience and a bit of analysis, but a good visualization can act as a shortcut to intuition. And this one in particular was nicely designed.

psuter 10y ago

I feel like the AI is particularly intelligent in its use of lines to distract me. Fun visualization otherwise, even though it's a little hard to really understand what's going on. At least I can tell which moves are not considered.

sheepleherd 10y ago
what would make it much better along those lines (are you listening designers?) would be if it drew its thinking lines on the board but under the pieces. because I can't study the board while it's thinking (it obscures all the pieces) I can't quickly learn if its lines are interesting or not

pybolt 10y ago

I think I broke your program. Its my turn and I should be able to take the King but the game keeps on going: http://imgur.com/ZLbHaLK http://imgur.com/ZLbHaLK

catnaroek 10y ago

This AI is very stupid. Here's our game, I played white: > 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 Nxe4 It's well known that the correct move here is 3...d6. > 4.Qe2 d5 5.d3 Bb4+ Black could still limit its material losses to just a pawn with 5...Qe7. > 6.c3 Bd6 7.Nf3 0-0 8.dxe4 dxe4 9.Nd4 Nd7 10.Nd2 f5 Completely inexplicable. > 11.Ne6 Qh4 12.g3 Qe7 13.Nxf8 Kxf8 My pieces are still a little stuck, but I'm a full rook up! To my surprise, black was very happy to exchange pieces. The main thing that delayed the final result was my own imprecision. > 14.Nc4 Bc5 15.h4 Ne5 16.Nxe5 Qxe5 17.Bf4 Qe7 18.0-0-0 Bd6 19.Bxd6 cxd6 20.Qd2 Be6 21.Qxd6 Qxd6 22.Rxd6 Bxa2 23.Bh3 g6 24.g4 fxg4 25.Bxg4 h5 26.Bh3 Bf7 27.Re1 Re8 28.Rd7 Be6 29.Bxe6 Rxe6 30.Rxb7 a6 31.Rb4 Rf6 32.Re2 e3 33.fxe3 Rc1+ 34.Kc2 Kg8 35.Rg2 Rf6 36.Rb7 Rd6 37.Rd2 Rxd2+ 38.Kxd2 a5 39.e4 a4 40.Ke3 Kh8 41.Kf4 Kg8 42.Kg5 Kf8 43.Kxg6 Ke8 44.Kf6 Kd8 45.Ke6 Kc8 46.Rh7 Kb8 47.Kd6 Ka8 48.Kc6 Kb8 49.e5 Kc8 50.Rh8#

sheepleherd 10y ago
I think they wanted you to notice the design and the thinking lines. They didn't set out to invent the world's best chess player.
- catnaroek 10y ago
  In practice, I didn't notice the thinking lines, and I didn't even see the board itself. The author should've displayed the thinking lines on a separate, perhaps smaller, board on the side.