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> Medicare is somehow socialism Medicare is literally a tool for redistribution of wealth from wealthy to the less-wealthy. Some of that is in association with

> Medicare is somehow socialism Medicare is literally a tool for redistribution of wealth from wealthy to the less-wealthy. Some of that is in association with risk smoothing (typical insurance), but a huge chunk of that redistribution happens without any smoothing of risk. You can argue that "wealth redistribution from wealthy to poor" is not technically the definition of socialism, but colloquially, that's certainly how the word is used, so it's not wrong in that sense to say that Medicare is a socialist program.

mason240 10y ago
This definition so broad that it is effectively meaningless. Every government action that is funded by taxes, from Medicare to road building to national defense, can be considered wealth distribution, and thus socialism.
- dpark 10y ago
  The people who are "anti-socialism" see road building, national defense, and policing as "the government's job" and see healthcare and other social services as "not the government's job". Hence national defense is not considered socialist, whereas single-payer healthcare is considered socialist. I get that you think this definition is wrong, but you're in the minority here. Both self-identified socialists and anti-socialists in the US consider social welfare programs to be socialist. https://berniesanders.com/democratic-socialism-in-the-united-states/ https://berniesanders.com/democratic-socialism-in-the-united... "Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country was “socialist.” The concept of the “minimum wage” was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as “socialist.” Unemployment insurance, abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as “socialist.” Yet, these programs have become the fabric of our nation and the foundation of the middle class."
  - Kristine1975 10y ago
    > Both self-identified socialists and anti-socialists in the US consider social welfare programs to be socialist. I don't think that's what Sanders is saying at all. I think he is saying that those programs were derided as "socialism".
    - dpark 10y ago
      Yes, they were "derided" as socialist because some see "socialist" as a negative term. Socialists (including Sanders) still generally see that socialist programs, though. > So let me define for you, simply and straightforwardly, what democratic socialism means to me. It builds on what Franklin Delano Roosevelt said when he fought for guaranteed economic rights for all Americans. ... > It means that health care should be a right of all people, not a privilege... > Democratic socialism means that, in the year 2015, a college degree is equivalent to what a high school degree was 50 years ago – and that public education must allow every person in this country... > Democratic socialism means that our government does everything it can to create a full employment economy... > Democratic socialism means that if someone works forty hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty: that we must raise the minimum wage to a living wage – $15 an hour over the next few years. It means that we join the rest of the world and pass the very strong Paid Family and Medical Leave legislation now in Congress... > ...
ConfuciusSay02 10y ago
In the Libertarian Party platform they support funding the military with tax dollars. Are the people who built the Libertarian Party platform just self-hating socialists?

mason240 10y ago

This definition so broad that it is effectively meaningless. Every government action that is funded by taxes, from Medicare to road building to national defense, can be considered wealth distribution, and thus socialism.

dpark 10y ago
The people who are "anti-socialism" see road building, national defense, and policing as "the government's job" and see healthcare and other social services as "not the government's job". Hence national defense is not considered socialist, whereas single-payer healthcare is considered socialist. I get that you think this definition is wrong, but you're in the minority here. Both self-identified socialists and anti-socialists in the US consider social welfare programs to be socialist. https://berniesanders.com/democratic-socialism-in-the-united-states/ https://berniesanders.com/democratic-socialism-in-the-united... "Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country was “socialist.” The concept of the “minimum wage” was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as “socialist.” Unemployment insurance, abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as “socialist.” Yet, these programs have become the fabric of our nation and the foundation of the middle class."
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  > Both self-identified socialists and anti-socialists in the US consider social welfare programs to be socialist. I don't think that's what Sanders is saying at all. I think he is saying that those programs were derided as "socialism".
  - dpark 10y ago
    Yes, they were "derided" as socialist because some see "socialist" as a negative term. Socialists (including Sanders) still generally see that socialist programs, though. > So let me define for you, simply and straightforwardly, what democratic socialism means to me. It builds on what Franklin Delano Roosevelt said when he fought for guaranteed economic rights for all Americans. ... > It means that health care should be a right of all people, not a privilege... > Democratic socialism means that, in the year 2015, a college degree is equivalent to what a high school degree was 50 years ago – and that public education must allow every person in this country... > Democratic socialism means that our government does everything it can to create a full employment economy... > Democratic socialism means that if someone works forty hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty: that we must raise the minimum wage to a living wage – $15 an hour over the next few years. It means that we join the rest of the world and pass the very strong Paid Family and Medical Leave legislation now in Congress... > ...

ConfuciusSay02 10y ago

In the Libertarian Party platform they support funding the military with tax dollars. Are the people who built the Libertarian Party platform just self-hating socialists?