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1. Israel is no longer in control of Gaza 2. if you're going to fire stuff at a x1000 stronger military power, then maybe it's time you made better decisions (r

1. Israel is no longer in control of Gaza 2. if you're going to fire stuff at a x1000 stronger military power, then maybe it's time you made better decisions (ref: peace deal made by Ehud Barak back in 2000, which Arafat sunk for no good reason)

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Synaesthesia 10y ago
Israel is in control of Gaza, as recognized by most observers. It controls the airspace, sea, and everything that goes in and out, as well as of course the continuous incursions into the territory. According to the ceasefires which Israel has signed with Hamas, it's supposed to alleviate the siege on the strip, but it has never lived up to those ceasefires, whereas Hamas has. Continuing to devastate the territory economically, of course the people there will revolt!
- blisterpeanuts 10y ago
  Are you joking? If you lived next to Gaza, how could you trust them? They repeatedly have said they want to destroy Israel, in speech after speech, thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israeli towns and villages, dozens of attack tunnels dug, and it's in the Hamas charter that Israel must be destroyed. There's some evidence that ISIS is now operating in Gaza, and some Gazan Arabs have gone to Iran for combat/terrorism training. If not for the extremists controlling the Strip, and dominating the hearts and minds of its residents, Gaza could be a high tech paradise: foreign investment there could be huge, with Israeli factories and tech centers set up, agricultural enterprises, and billion dollar Mediterranean resorts along the gorgeous coast.
  - Synaesthesia 10y ago
    The idea that Gaza is a threat to Israel is not true, Israel has a huge, sophisticated military. It is Israel which is the threat to its neighbors, it's launched many wars. Israel has preached the same kind of destruction about Gaza and actually carried it out. Regarding the history of Israel and the Palestinians, You should look at the history of the occupation. In the Gaza Strip, the 5m high walls concrete walls between the few thousand settlers who use way more resources, occupied about 1/3rd of the land, while over a million people lived around them in poverty. It's very cruel and brutal apartheid/imperialism by Israel understandably made Gazans angry. Things like arbitrary detention, mass torture of Palestinians, assassinations and so on which are the underpinning of the military occupation, this is what pushes people to extremism.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      Well the walls have been working fantastically well for Israel. Suicide bombings just don't really happen anymore. Yeah sure, the knifings have been going on, but those kill a lot less people. 15 years ago there used to be a bombing every week.
      - Synaesthesia 10y ago
        The suicide bombings only came after attacks by Israel, each one was a response for an attack by Israel, for example attacking apartment buildings with helicopter gunships. That's important to remember - they have a context. Yes the wall is working well for Israel, it's annexed more of the West Bank by default, and is disrupting the lives of Palestinians massively, and also the migration of wildlife. There's been quite a lot of violence lately, death toll is still pretty high since late 2015.
  - uola 10y ago
    I don't see your point. The US government has a long history of overthrowing governments (even democratically elected ones) in the middle east and other parts of the world. If you're trying to justify killing thousands of civilians with that their leaders are threatening you, it's an argument very closely resembling those extremists make against the US.
- amitport 10y ago
  "the people there will revolt!" - As they should, but you got it the other way around. They should rise against the fanatics among them who aim for Islam domination, the destruction of Israel. Those continuously attempting to kill innocent people. Seriously, why do you think the naval blockade is in place? How does Israel benefits from it? In any case, there are also a couple of facts you need to look into. "Israel is in control of Gaza" - Gaza is ruled by Hamas and it also has a border with Egypt "it has never lived up to those ceasefires" - When did they actually ceased to fire? (you know, you can't just occasionally bomb the other side during a ceasefire)
  - Synaesthesia 10y ago
    Israel instituted the separation fence in Gaza in 1993 during the Oslo process. It's remained there since despite being explicitly banned by the Oslo treaty, to which Israel is a signatory. It moved immediately to divide the West Bank from Gaza. If you look at the map, Gaza is the one possibly opening to Palestine to the rest of the world, Palestine is otherwise surrounded by hostile countries. This is why the blockade is maintained. There were have been ceasefires in 2008 and 2012 where there were no rocket attacks. Hamas lived up to it. Most rocket attacks were in reponse to an Israeli action. It's a long history which I don't have time to go through now but has been covered by observers like Noam Chomsky. http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175892/ http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175892/
    - amitport 10y ago
      "Gaza is the one possibly opening to Palestine to the rest of the world, Palestine is otherwise surrounded by hostile countries. This is why the blockade is maintained." - What exactly do you mean by Palestine? if you mean Gaza and the West Bank, then who are the hostile countries? Egypt, Jordan and Israel? Even if they are all "hostile" what do they gain by maintaining an expensive naval blockade (and providing alternative, regulated by security checks, routes, which also cost those "hostile" countries a lot of money)? "There were have been ceasefires in 2008 and 2012 where there were no rocket attacks" "Most rocket attacks were in reponse to an Israeli action" - Absolute lies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_att..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_att.... I live here in the missile range. Noam Chomsky, a great linguist, an "Observer" from a different continent, is not a very good historian.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Synaesthesia 10y ago

Israel is in control of Gaza, as recognized by most observers. It controls the airspace, sea, and everything that goes in and out, as well as of course the continuous incursions into the territory. According to the ceasefires which Israel has signed with Hamas, it's supposed to alleviate the siege on the strip, but it has never lived up to those ceasefires, whereas Hamas has. Continuing to devastate the territory economically, of course the people there will revolt!

blisterpeanuts 10y ago
Are you joking? If you lived next to Gaza, how could you trust them? They repeatedly have said they want to destroy Israel, in speech after speech, thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israeli towns and villages, dozens of attack tunnels dug, and it's in the Hamas charter that Israel must be destroyed. There's some evidence that ISIS is now operating in Gaza, and some Gazan Arabs have gone to Iran for combat/terrorism training. If not for the extremists controlling the Strip, and dominating the hearts and minds of its residents, Gaza could be a high tech paradise: foreign investment there could be huge, with Israeli factories and tech centers set up, agricultural enterprises, and billion dollar Mediterranean resorts along the gorgeous coast.
- Synaesthesia 10y ago
  The idea that Gaza is a threat to Israel is not true, Israel has a huge, sophisticated military. It is Israel which is the threat to its neighbors, it's launched many wars. Israel has preached the same kind of destruction about Gaza and actually carried it out. Regarding the history of Israel and the Palestinians, You should look at the history of the occupation. In the Gaza Strip, the 5m high walls concrete walls between the few thousand settlers who use way more resources, occupied about 1/3rd of the land, while over a million people lived around them in poverty. It's very cruel and brutal apartheid/imperialism by Israel understandably made Gazans angry. Things like arbitrary detention, mass torture of Palestinians, assassinations and so on which are the underpinning of the military occupation, this is what pushes people to extremism.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Well the walls have been working fantastically well for Israel. Suicide bombings just don't really happen anymore. Yeah sure, the knifings have been going on, but those kill a lot less people. 15 years ago there used to be a bombing every week.
    - Synaesthesia 10y ago
      The suicide bombings only came after attacks by Israel, each one was a response for an attack by Israel, for example attacking apartment buildings with helicopter gunships. That's important to remember - they have a context. Yes the wall is working well for Israel, it's annexed more of the West Bank by default, and is disrupting the lives of Palestinians massively, and also the migration of wildlife. There's been quite a lot of violence lately, death toll is still pretty high since late 2015.
- uola 10y ago
  I don't see your point. The US government has a long history of overthrowing governments (even democratically elected ones) in the middle east and other parts of the world. If you're trying to justify killing thousands of civilians with that their leaders are threatening you, it's an argument very closely resembling those extremists make against the US.
amitport 10y ago
"the people there will revolt!" - As they should, but you got it the other way around. They should rise against the fanatics among them who aim for Islam domination, the destruction of Israel. Those continuously attempting to kill innocent people. Seriously, why do you think the naval blockade is in place? How does Israel benefits from it? In any case, there are also a couple of facts you need to look into. "Israel is in control of Gaza" - Gaza is ruled by Hamas and it also has a border with Egypt "it has never lived up to those ceasefires" - When did they actually ceased to fire? (you know, you can't just occasionally bomb the other side during a ceasefire)
- Synaesthesia 10y ago
  Israel instituted the separation fence in Gaza in 1993 during the Oslo process. It's remained there since despite being explicitly banned by the Oslo treaty, to which Israel is a signatory. It moved immediately to divide the West Bank from Gaza. If you look at the map, Gaza is the one possibly opening to Palestine to the rest of the world, Palestine is otherwise surrounded by hostile countries. This is why the blockade is maintained. There were have been ceasefires in 2008 and 2012 where there were no rocket attacks. Hamas lived up to it. Most rocket attacks were in reponse to an Israeli action. It's a long history which I don't have time to go through now but has been covered by observers like Noam Chomsky. http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175892/ http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175892/
  - amitport 10y ago
    "Gaza is the one possibly opening to Palestine to the rest of the world, Palestine is otherwise surrounded by hostile countries. This is why the blockade is maintained." - What exactly do you mean by Palestine? if you mean Gaza and the West Bank, then who are the hostile countries? Egypt, Jordan and Israel? Even if they are all "hostile" what do they gain by maintaining an expensive naval blockade (and providing alternative, regulated by security checks, routes, which also cost those "hostile" countries a lot of money)? "There were have been ceasefires in 2008 and 2012 where there were no rocket attacks" "Most rocket attacks were in reponse to an Israeli action" - Absolute lies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_att..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_att.... I live here in the missile range. Noam Chomsky, a great linguist, an "Observer" from a different continent, is not a very good historian.