5 ms·

The world of mushroom growing

97 points by sergioisidoro 10y ago

finnh 10y ago
The article references a mushroom body as the largest on earth [0], which is true by area. But the largest by mass is a stand of aspen trees [1]. Because aspen clones can regenerate vegetatively from their underground roots, they in some ways can be thought of as "a fungus with tree-like appendages" (I forgot where I read that, sadly). [0] http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism-in-the-world http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)
pluteoid 10y ago
>All the techniques that I learned can be applied to cultivate any kind of mushroom... If only this were true. Sterile culture techniques only work for the subset of species that aren't obligately mycorrhizal (forming mutualisms with plants), parasitic, or that have other complex ecological requirements. Thus there are all kinds of delicious and interesting species we can't grow so easily, or at all. But I have a lot of respect for home cultivators like this guy, who go beyond the grow kit stage. It's straightforward to culture and fruit many mushroom species in a properly equipped microbiology lab. But when you're in your kitchen, making do with "gloveboxes"[1] instead of HEPA laminar flow hoods, stovetop pressure cookers instead of autoclaves, and fridges and terrariums instead of programmable incubator units, things can get really challenging. [1] http://www.instructables.com/id/Glove-bag-for-Mushroom-Growing-and-Mycology/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Glove-bag-for-Mushroom-Growi...
- Alex3917 10y ago
  You actually don't need especially sterile conditions to grow oyster mushrooms. I've done this tek, it works pretty well: https://courses.biology.washington.edu/biol440-spr16/folders/download/48 https://courses.biology.washington.edu/biol440-spr16/folders... Also the mycelium has a pleasant almond smell, so that's a nice whenever you go downstairs to check on them. The hardest part is figuring out what to tell the Petco employees when they ask what kind of cat you have.
  - pluteoid 10y ago
    The tek you link starts from grain spawn. You don't need sterile conditions at all to propagate loads of mushroom species if you're already starting with a robust dikaryotic culture, especially those of wood-decay (lignicolous) species. That's one principle of "spawn". And there are some dirtier methods that can work, e.g. just dumping spore water onto suitable unsterilized outdoor mass substrates. But I've seen home cultivators who manage to do things like culture single spore isolates, breed and select dikaryons, clone wild specimens, and fruit very fussy species, all indoors with basic and improvised equipment. That deserves respect.
    - Alex3917 10y ago
      Yeah I've seen the instructions online for building your own flow hood, that whole subculture is pretty nuts. If you haven't read Hamilton Morris's story about the guy who created the Penis Envy psilocybe strain, it's pretty interesting both because of the content but also because it involves a lot of folks you probably know or at least know of if you're into the amateur mycology thing. http://harpers.org/archive/2013/07/blood-spore/ http://harpers.org/archive/2013/07/blood-spore/
      - aedron 10y ago
        That is a wonderfully written article.
  - sushid 10y ago
    How much could I expect to harvest using this method. Does this translate to a signification reduction in cost?
    - H0n3sty 10y ago
      You might see a cost reduction if you learn to grow some of the more expensive varieties. The yield is tricky because there are other variables that factor in like ambient temperature/moisture and the prescribed ranges are rather large. I'm working on my first grow kit, and so far the yield is zero :(
- sergioisidoro 10y ago
  I learned that the hard way, after going to trouble of collecting spores from a wide variety of mushrooms during autumn, and realisong after classification that they were in fact mycorrhizal. However, I've learned, you can buy pre inoculated trees with some mycorrhizal fungi, or infect trees with parasitic fungi like the chaga mushroom [1] that has gained popularity in the biohacking community lately due the amazing concentration of anti-oxidants. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inonotus_obliquus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inonotus_obliquus
Alex3917 10y ago
For what it's worth, false morels are only considered edible in certain areas. E.g. in New England they're considered deadly poisonous, but they're considered a delicacy in Cincinnati. There are a lot of different species, and also possibly gene transfer across species, so it's not really clear what's going on.
- tenkabuto 10y ago
  Sorry, do you mean that they are considered edible or inedible in these regions due to varying conceptions of "edible", or do you mean that the false morels of some regions are poisonous while those in others are not?
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    The latter, although sort of both. In some areas the false morels are mostly edible, while in other areas they are mostly poisonous, but it's not really possible to figure out what exactly the distributions are for any given area. So in some areas they're eaten by tradition, while in other areas they're not eaten by tradition, and it's difficult to say whether or not any given region is 'correct'. The phrase I've heard is that they're considered the world's most delicious mushroom, that occasionally kills you.
    - peterwwillis 10y ago
      You could also just pick true morels and toss the ones that resemble false ones. Sadly, morel season is over here in Maryland, but with recent rains the summer mushrooms may be ready soon.
    - sergioisidoro 10y ago
      Ok, that I did not know. Maybe they vary in concentration of gyromitrin? Or is it just folk knowledge? Eating large quantities of it is really not advisable, and you are recommended to drink lots of water afterwards. As far as I know, and please do your research first if you wish to prepare it, you should clean them thoroughly, and throw away the water. Cooking has to be done properly by boiling twice to denaturate gyromitrin, and rinsing again. http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/morel.htm http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/morel.htm > Often they seem to think that their Nordic colleagues must be totally ignorant of the false morel's toxicity. > The truth is, however, that everyone born in the Nordic countries knows — especially in Finland — that the false morel is lethally toxic if eaten raw or incorrectly processed, and that even inhaling its fumes can cause poisoning symptoms. And yes, most mushroom related deaths [citation needed, I think I read about central Europe with some references to Poland] are related to the false morel, but due to misclassification (people mistake it with the morel and might eat it raw). Edit: you're right there seems not to be a consensus... > Note that these instructions only apply to the false morel fungi growing, picked or/and sold in Finland (Gyromitra esculenta) and do not apply to any false morels (Gyromitra esculenta) growing elsewhere in the world
mkoryak 10y ago
someone pointed me to a site that sells mushroom pellets that you stick into logs to grow. ill try it soon. something like this: http://www.shii-take.de/irw_lang.454e47.list.4b41543333.html http://www.shii-take.de/irw_lang.454e47.list.4b41543333.html or this https://www.mushroomadventures.com/ https://www.mushroomadventures.com/
mikereedell 10y ago
Reminds me of when I lived in southeast PA by Kennett Square, a town with a lot of mushroom farms. I was curious as to why they were in that area. Turns out you need hay and horse urine to grow mushrooms. That area has a lot of hay farms and a lot of horse farms. Riding a bicycle by the farms when they were changing over a grow house on a humid summer morning is an olfactory experience I won't forget.
andreapaiola 10y ago
Mushrooms! https://m.facebook.com/apaiola/albums/115718195152001/?ref=bookmarks https://m.facebook.com/apaiola/albums/115718195152001/?ref=b...
andreapaiola 10y ago
I live near the best site in the world for porcini (boletus)...
roel_v 10y ago
But then what about mushroom farms? If everything needs to be so sterile, how do the commercial mushroom farm I've visited work? I know of one that is basically in a few stables next to other stables where cows are kept, with the sterility you' expect from the average farm; and another one inside old limestone quarries, because the temperature there is low, constant and it's moist. Not the most sterile place I've seen either - they do daily tours even! Is the sterile thing only for some species?
- Synaesthesia 10y ago
  It depends, what's important is that you don't want a bacterium or other organism taking over your substrate, which can happen easily especially with agar gel and nutrient rich substrates. But if the mushrooms acquire a critical mass they can actually kill bacteria. There are many techniques, some emphasizing sterility. Others use a weak peroxide solutions which kills other organisms but not fungi. And others say sterility is overrated and just grow mushrooms in big plastic bags.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
  Obviously wild mushrooms aren't grown in sterile conditions, either. However, wild mushrooms have the luxury of only needing to grow in those unlikely places where conditions are just right for them to thrive. If you hope to grow a mushroom monoculture on a rich media (e.g. grains), you'll need to avoid the other fungi and bacteria that would easily out-compete your desired species. Once the mycelia is established, it's quite robust, at least relatively speaking. Un-colonized substrate, however, will readily harbor trichoderma, cobweb mold, etc. that will spread and kill your mushrooms. On a commercial farm, you're typically not looking at the colonization phase. If you see actual fruiting bodies, these are mushrooms at the very end of the crop cycle where contamination is no longer a risk. The initial colonization is often done on pasteurized substrate in a clean environment. Strict sterility is neither economical nor required, but effort must be made to give the desired species ideal conditions for growth. And then, contamination is a significant risk for the farmer. Once the mushrooms have been cased, exposure to fresh air is an important pinning trigger and contamination is not an issue.
goldenkey 10y ago
What about the spores -- after these pseudoplastics are processed - are they totally safe in terms of air quality? Aren't some spores able to withstand immense heat/cold and very harsh conditions?
zupreme 10y ago
Am I the only one who noticed how he deftly handled the magic mushroom question? To the casual eye, you'd think he denied growing them. If you read carefully though, he did not deny it.
- Lapsa 10y ago
  I plan to someday grow and use magicshrooms although i have no prior experience with psychedelics or growing mushrooms. this topic shouldn't be that big of a deal
- ogurechny 10y ago
  If he's in Finland, he can stock up with dried fly amanita for the whole year without any hassle. It's a different kind of magic, but worth mentioning.
v4n4d1s 10y ago
In Switzerland you can buy mushroom-growing kits at some bigger COOP stores: http://pilzbox.ch/de/ http://pilzbox.ch/de/ (link is german /french only, but it has pictures) I tried it a year ago and it was really awesome, you just have to keep the substrate moist and wait about two weeks.

97 points by sergioisidoro 10y ago

finnh 10y ago

The article references a mushroom body as the largest on earth [0], which is true by area. But the largest by mass is a stand of aspen trees [1]. Because aspen clones can regenerate vegetatively from their underground roots, they in some ways can be thought of as "a fungus with tree-like appendages" (I forgot where I read that, sadly). [0] http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism-in-the-world http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)

pluteoid 10y ago

>All the techniques that I learned can be applied to cultivate any kind of mushroom... If only this were true. Sterile culture techniques only work for the subset of species that aren't obligately mycorrhizal (forming mutualisms with plants), parasitic, or that have other complex ecological requirements. Thus there are all kinds of delicious and interesting species we can't grow so easily, or at all. But I have a lot of respect for home cultivators like this guy, who go beyond the grow kit stage. It's straightforward to culture and fruit many mushroom species in a properly equipped microbiology lab. But when you're in your kitchen, making do with "gloveboxes"[1] instead of HEPA laminar flow hoods, stovetop pressure cookers instead of autoclaves, and fridges and terrariums instead of programmable incubator units, things can get really challenging. [1] http://www.instructables.com/id/Glove-bag-for-Mushroom-Growing-and-Mycology/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Glove-bag-for-Mushroom-Growi...

Alex3917 10y ago
You actually don't need especially sterile conditions to grow oyster mushrooms. I've done this tek, it works pretty well: https://courses.biology.washington.edu/biol440-spr16/folders/download/48 https://courses.biology.washington.edu/biol440-spr16/folders... Also the mycelium has a pleasant almond smell, so that's a nice whenever you go downstairs to check on them. The hardest part is figuring out what to tell the Petco employees when they ask what kind of cat you have.
- pluteoid 10y ago
  The tek you link starts from grain spawn. You don't need sterile conditions at all to propagate loads of mushroom species if you're already starting with a robust dikaryotic culture, especially those of wood-decay (lignicolous) species. That's one principle of "spawn". And there are some dirtier methods that can work, e.g. just dumping spore water onto suitable unsterilized outdoor mass substrates. But I've seen home cultivators who manage to do things like culture single spore isolates, breed and select dikaryons, clone wild specimens, and fruit very fussy species, all indoors with basic and improvised equipment. That deserves respect.
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    Yeah I've seen the instructions online for building your own flow hood, that whole subculture is pretty nuts. If you haven't read Hamilton Morris's story about the guy who created the Penis Envy psilocybe strain, it's pretty interesting both because of the content but also because it involves a lot of folks you probably know or at least know of if you're into the amateur mycology thing. http://harpers.org/archive/2013/07/blood-spore/ http://harpers.org/archive/2013/07/blood-spore/
    - aedron 10y ago
      That is a wonderfully written article.
- sushid 10y ago
  How much could I expect to harvest using this method. Does this translate to a signification reduction in cost?
  - H0n3sty 10y ago
    You might see a cost reduction if you learn to grow some of the more expensive varieties. The yield is tricky because there are other variables that factor in like ambient temperature/moisture and the prescribed ranges are rather large. I'm working on my first grow kit, and so far the yield is zero :(
sergioisidoro 10y ago
I learned that the hard way, after going to trouble of collecting spores from a wide variety of mushrooms during autumn, and realisong after classification that they were in fact mycorrhizal. However, I've learned, you can buy pre inoculated trees with some mycorrhizal fungi, or infect trees with parasitic fungi like the chaga mushroom [1] that has gained popularity in the biohacking community lately due the amazing concentration of anti-oxidants. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inonotus_obliquus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inonotus_obliquus

Alex3917 10y ago

For what it's worth, false morels are only considered edible in certain areas. E.g. in New England they're considered deadly poisonous, but they're considered a delicacy in Cincinnati. There are a lot of different species, and also possibly gene transfer across species, so it's not really clear what's going on.

tenkabuto 10y ago
Sorry, do you mean that they are considered edible or inedible in these regions due to varying conceptions of "edible", or do you mean that the false morels of some regions are poisonous while those in others are not?
- Alex3917 10y ago
  The latter, although sort of both. In some areas the false morels are mostly edible, while in other areas they are mostly poisonous, but it's not really possible to figure out what exactly the distributions are for any given area. So in some areas they're eaten by tradition, while in other areas they're not eaten by tradition, and it's difficult to say whether or not any given region is 'correct'. The phrase I've heard is that they're considered the world's most delicious mushroom, that occasionally kills you.
  - peterwwillis 10y ago
    You could also just pick true morels and toss the ones that resemble false ones. Sadly, morel season is over here in Maryland, but with recent rains the summer mushrooms may be ready soon.
  - sergioisidoro 10y ago
    Ok, that I did not know. Maybe they vary in concentration of gyromitrin? Or is it just folk knowledge? Eating large quantities of it is really not advisable, and you are recommended to drink lots of water afterwards. As far as I know, and please do your research first if you wish to prepare it, you should clean them thoroughly, and throw away the water. Cooking has to be done properly by boiling twice to denaturate gyromitrin, and rinsing again. http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/morel.htm http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/morel.htm > Often they seem to think that their Nordic colleagues must be totally ignorant of the false morel's toxicity. > The truth is, however, that everyone born in the Nordic countries knows — especially in Finland — that the false morel is lethally toxic if eaten raw or incorrectly processed, and that even inhaling its fumes can cause poisoning symptoms. And yes, most mushroom related deaths [citation needed, I think I read about central Europe with some references to Poland] are related to the false morel, but due to misclassification (people mistake it with the morel and might eat it raw). Edit: you're right there seems not to be a consensus... > Note that these instructions only apply to the false morel fungi growing, picked or/and sold in Finland (Gyromitra esculenta) and do not apply to any false morels (Gyromitra esculenta) growing elsewhere in the world

mkoryak 10y ago

someone pointed me to a site that sells mushroom pellets that you stick into logs to grow. ill try it soon. something like this: http://www.shii-take.de/irw_lang.454e47.list.4b41543333.html http://www.shii-take.de/irw_lang.454e47.list.4b41543333.html or this https://www.mushroomadventures.com/ https://www.mushroomadventures.com/

mikereedell 10y ago

Reminds me of when I lived in southeast PA by Kennett Square, a town with a lot of mushroom farms. I was curious as to why they were in that area. Turns out you need hay and horse urine to grow mushrooms. That area has a lot of hay farms and a lot of horse farms. Riding a bicycle by the farms when they were changing over a grow house on a humid summer morning is an olfactory experience I won't forget.

andreapaiola 10y ago

Mushrooms! https://m.facebook.com/apaiola/albums/115718195152001/?ref=bookmarks https://m.facebook.com/apaiola/albums/115718195152001/?ref=b...

andreapaiola 10y ago

I live near the best site in the world for porcini (boletus)...

roel_v 10y ago

But then what about mushroom farms? If everything needs to be so sterile, how do the commercial mushroom farm I've visited work? I know of one that is basically in a few stables next to other stables where cows are kept, with the sterility you' expect from the average farm; and another one inside old limestone quarries, because the temperature there is low, constant and it's moist. Not the most sterile place I've seen either - they do daily tours even! Is the sterile thing only for some species?

Synaesthesia 10y ago
It depends, what's important is that you don't want a bacterium or other organism taking over your substrate, which can happen easily especially with agar gel and nutrient rich substrates. But if the mushrooms acquire a critical mass they can actually kill bacteria. There are many techniques, some emphasizing sterility. Others use a weak peroxide solutions which kills other organisms but not fungi. And others say sterility is overrated and just grow mushrooms in big plastic bags.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
Obviously wild mushrooms aren't grown in sterile conditions, either. However, wild mushrooms have the luxury of only needing to grow in those unlikely places where conditions are just right for them to thrive. If you hope to grow a mushroom monoculture on a rich media (e.g. grains), you'll need to avoid the other fungi and bacteria that would easily out-compete your desired species. Once the mycelia is established, it's quite robust, at least relatively speaking. Un-colonized substrate, however, will readily harbor trichoderma, cobweb mold, etc. that will spread and kill your mushrooms. On a commercial farm, you're typically not looking at the colonization phase. If you see actual fruiting bodies, these are mushrooms at the very end of the crop cycle where contamination is no longer a risk. The initial colonization is often done on pasteurized substrate in a clean environment. Strict sterility is neither economical nor required, but effort must be made to give the desired species ideal conditions for growth. And then, contamination is a significant risk for the farmer. Once the mushrooms have been cased, exposure to fresh air is an important pinning trigger and contamination is not an issue.

goldenkey 10y ago

What about the spores -- after these pseudoplastics are processed - are they totally safe in terms of air quality? Aren't some spores able to withstand immense heat/cold and very harsh conditions?

zupreme 10y ago

Am I the only one who noticed how he deftly handled the magic mushroom question? To the casual eye, you'd think he denied growing them. If you read carefully though, he did not deny it.

Lapsa 10y ago
I plan to someday grow and use magicshrooms although i have no prior experience with psychedelics or growing mushrooms. this topic shouldn't be that big of a deal
ogurechny 10y ago
If he's in Finland, he can stock up with dried fly amanita for the whole year without any hassle. It's a different kind of magic, but worth mentioning.

v4n4d1s 10y ago

In Switzerland you can buy mushroom-growing kits at some bigger COOP stores: http://pilzbox.ch/de/ http://pilzbox.ch/de/ (link is german /french only, but it has pictures) I tried it a year ago and it was really awesome, you just have to keep the substrate moist and wait about two weeks.