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I can't quite tell what you are trying to argue, because you acknowledge that government incentives have helped, yet you seem to be claiming that the success of

by pyoung 10y ago

I can't quite tell what you are trying to argue, because you acknowledge that government incentives have helped, yet you seem to be claiming that the success of solar was due to free market economics. Just to set the record straight, the solar industry would not exist without government support. Nearly every company past and present has taken grant money from the DOE, or directly benefited from cash rebates or stimulus money. Local utilities in many states are required by local regulatory agencies to buyback excess solar power at retail prices, which for many regions is the difference between hitting the break even point in a reasonable time frame. And before the ITC (tax credit) was unexpectedly extended last year, companies were preparing to downsize considerably and were warning local politicians that without an extension, there would be massive layoffs in the industry. With battery tech starting to become viable and with continuing efficiency improvements, we are getting closer to a point where solar might be able to compete on it's own, but in it's current form, the industry is still highly dependent on subsidies and tax breaks.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
> With battery tech starting to become viable and with continuing efficiency improvements, we are getting closer to a point where solar might be able to compete on it's own, but in it's current form, the industry is still highly dependent on subsidies and tax breaks. Small quibble: Wind and solar are already cheaper than utility power in ~20 states (unsubsidized), and cheap wind drove Exelon to close two nuclear power plants in the last week. While wind and solar can now "stand on their own" as it were, we should be doing nothing but increasing subsidies to deploy them faster.
Brakenshire 10y ago
Not to mention that the entire global market was massively supported (you're talking 20-50% of the global shipping volume) by crazily high subsidies from the German government for 5-10 years, over the period when cost went from $5/W to $1/W.
nickik 10y ago
While that is true, it also goes in the other direction. How much money has been put into keeping fossil fuels cheap? We simply don't have a free-market price in energy. I would say that in the long run the market would probably, by itself switch to renewable non-polluting energy but the governments investment has probably helped. Governments can make really drag most markets (with a few exceptions), but they can usually kick it in the butt.

by pyoung 10y ago

toomuchtodo 10y ago

> With battery tech starting to become viable and with continuing efficiency improvements, we are getting closer to a point where solar might be able to compete on it's own, but in it's current form, the industry is still highly dependent on subsidies and tax breaks. Small quibble: Wind and solar are already cheaper than utility power in ~20 states (unsubsidized), and cheap wind drove Exelon to close two nuclear power plants in the last week. While wind and solar can now "stand on their own" as it were, we should be doing nothing but increasing subsidies to deploy them faster.

Brakenshire 10y ago

Not to mention that the entire global market was massively supported (you're talking 20-50% of the global shipping volume) by crazily high subsidies from the German government for 5-10 years, over the period when cost went from $5/W to $1/W.

nickik 10y ago

While that is true, it also goes in the other direction. How much money has been put into keeping fossil fuels cheap? We simply don't have a free-market price in energy. I would say that in the long run the market would probably, by itself switch to renewable non-polluting energy but the governments investment has probably helped. Governments can make really drag most markets (with a few exceptions), but they can usually kick it in the butt.