4 ms·

You don't. Grandma should move to someplace cheaper. The cures are worse than the disease, and if property taxes really have increased that much, she's in for a

You don't. Grandma should move to someplace cheaper. The cures are worse than the disease, and if property taxes really have increased that much, she's in for a nice windfall when she sells and buys something cheaper elsewhere.

mosdave 10y ago
> Grandma should move to someplace cheaper. ..and somehow NIMBYs are painted as the heartless ones?
shostack 10y ago
People don't like to hear this because it is just a very non-PC narrative, but it is the truth. In other real estate markets, this is a huge downward pressure on housing prices by the fact that if taxes get too high, it increases the inventory by the amount of people forced out. The Bay Area is almost entirely lacking in that pressure, which combined with other Prop 13-related issues and the area's popularity makes a perfect storm for this current fiasco. Nobody wants ol' granny, or that single mom who has lived there forever, etc. to have to uproot their life and leave, but there simply is no way to have a happy outcome for everyone. And, to your point, if property taxes have increased that much, the increased home value should take some of the sting out of it when they go to sell. There are very real emotional downsides to all of this, but ultimately I'm of the opinion that people being forced out of areas as they gentrify due to property taxes are a necessary part of a healthy real estate ecosystem. Really curious to see what happens in the long game as the families who inherit homes that were locked into old tax levels are forced to sell as they can't pass them on to a second generation without the tax rate resetting. Anyone have an estimate on when that may be? Perhaps we'll see a major correction in Bay Area house prices at that point as the inventory increases from that.
- johan_larson 10y ago
  > Really curious to see what happens in the long game as the families who inherit homes that were locked into old tax levels are forced to sell as they can't pass them on to a second generation without the tax rate resetting. That game has already been played. Transfers between generations do not cause reassessment. http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/propositions58.htm#1 http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/propositions58.htm#1 Congratulations, California voters. You made bad into worse.
  - shostack 10y ago
    Wow, that's crazy. I knew there was an exclusion of reassessment for initial transfer between parents and children (or grandparents and grandchildren in the event of deceased parents) but I didn't realize it just continued in perpetuity down the generational line. My original understanding was that the home could be transferred without triggering the reset in this manner once, and then subsequent times caused a reset. Bad into worse just about sums it up. If it wasn't for Prop 58 and 193 you'd expect that eventually, decades from now once the majority were reset, that Prop 13 would have a chance of being struck down, but this just ensures that future generations have every incentive to keep homes in the family. Thanks for sharing the link.
    - hx87 10y ago
      Strategic marriages just got a whole lot more attractive in California.
      - johan_larson 10y ago
        "She's got huge ... tracts of land!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPX-mW4l1rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPX-mW4l1rU

mosdave 10y ago

> Grandma should move to someplace cheaper. ..and somehow NIMBYs are painted as the heartless ones?

shostack 10y ago

People don't like to hear this because it is just a very non-PC narrative, but it is the truth. In other real estate markets, this is a huge downward pressure on housing prices by the fact that if taxes get too high, it increases the inventory by the amount of people forced out. The Bay Area is almost entirely lacking in that pressure, which combined with other Prop 13-related issues and the area's popularity makes a perfect storm for this current fiasco. Nobody wants ol' granny, or that single mom who has lived there forever, etc. to have to uproot their life and leave, but there simply is no way to have a happy outcome for everyone. And, to your point, if property taxes have increased that much, the increased home value should take some of the sting out of it when they go to sell. There are very real emotional downsides to all of this, but ultimately I'm of the opinion that people being forced out of areas as they gentrify due to property taxes are a necessary part of a healthy real estate ecosystem. Really curious to see what happens in the long game as the families who inherit homes that were locked into old tax levels are forced to sell as they can't pass them on to a second generation without the tax rate resetting. Anyone have an estimate on when that may be? Perhaps we'll see a major correction in Bay Area house prices at that point as the inventory increases from that.

johan_larson 10y ago
> Really curious to see what happens in the long game as the families who inherit homes that were locked into old tax levels are forced to sell as they can't pass them on to a second generation without the tax rate resetting. That game has already been played. Transfers between generations do not cause reassessment. http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/propositions58.htm#1 http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/propositions58.htm#1 Congratulations, California voters. You made bad into worse.
- shostack 10y ago
  Wow, that's crazy. I knew there was an exclusion of reassessment for initial transfer between parents and children (or grandparents and grandchildren in the event of deceased parents) but I didn't realize it just continued in perpetuity down the generational line. My original understanding was that the home could be transferred without triggering the reset in this manner once, and then subsequent times caused a reset. Bad into worse just about sums it up. If it wasn't for Prop 58 and 193 you'd expect that eventually, decades from now once the majority were reset, that Prop 13 would have a chance of being struck down, but this just ensures that future generations have every incentive to keep homes in the family. Thanks for sharing the link.
  - hx87 10y ago
    Strategic marriages just got a whole lot more attractive in California.
    - johan_larson 10y ago
      "She's got huge ... tracts of land!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPX-mW4l1rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPX-mW4l1rU