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> I, personally, could not sit idly by and watch, or record, anyone suffering without attempting to assist. We should be careful with this kind of statements.

> I, personally, could not sit idly by and watch, or record, anyone suffering without attempting to assist. We should be careful with this kind of statements. I remember that in Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman describes an experiment which shows that most people don't actually take action when the responsibility is shared among other people. Of course most people think they would.

hrnnnnnn 10y ago
It's called the Bystander Effect, and the most disturbing thing about it is that its strength is in proportion to the number of people present. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
- tunap 10y ago
  Yep. Take charge until an authority arrives. Engage the victim, if conscious, ask questions and gather any info you can to give to 1st responder to arrive on scene. Give direct commands to specific peoples. Do NOT make matters worse by moving the injured unless immediate danger is present. Most importantly, educate yourself/certify beforehand. I used my CPR cert once 25 years ago, yet I still renew it every year. Oh yeah, when the pro does arrive, don't take it personally if he/she is brusque or 'rude'. They are sometimes brutally efficient.
  - rsync 10y ago
    Also: do what you can to create, and maintain, a decent ingress into the scene for emergency personnel - clear a hallway, get the doors opened, and keep the way in and out clear.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    > Oh yeah, when the pro does arrive, don't take it personally if he/she is brusque or 'rude'. They are sometimes brutally efficient. This. Also, for some medical personnel being brusque and (apparently) unattached is the only way for them to not crack under seeing death every day. It's a fucking hard job and I highly respect everyone in the field.
- noir_lord 10y ago
  Years ago was cycling to work in winter and on the side of the road a young woman was sat in her panties and T-shirt vest crying, this was a main road, she was shivering violently, I stopped, rang for an ambulance and the police and gave her my outershell and fleece while the ambulance got there. She'd been sat at the side of the road for at least half an hour in rush hour and one other person had phoned in but not stopped. I didn't know about the bystander effect at the time but ever since then if I see someone I distress/hurt I act straightaway on the assumption no one else has and it won't hurt if they have. I was slightly ashamed of the people in my home town that day tbh.
- vidarh 10y ago
  My favourite description of dealing with this is from Cialdini's Influence, where he describes getting in a car accident, and worrying about the bystander effect as people drove past without stopping, and how he applied his knowledge about it to counter the effect. The most important aspect is basically that your chances of getting help goes up dramatically if you address specific people and ask for specific action ("you in the red shirt, please call 911" rather than "help"). Once people understand that there is a problem, and nobody else has it in hand, and they've been asked, chances are they will help, and once one person has started helping, the odds that more people will help of their own accord goes up significantly as well. Incidentally this translates to many aspects of life. If you ever want a group of people to take action, address specific people and get them to start. Once someone starts it becomes far harder for others to remain idle, and the first people are far more likely to start if you specifically task them with it.
  - hrnnnnnn 10y ago
    I have observed exactly this in team group chats at work, where addressing the group results in being ignored, but didn't make the link until you brought up that car accident example.
deleted 10y ago
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tunap 10y ago
Indeed, you never know until you're in the moment. Several first responders, friends and family, have enlightened me with their experiences and I have witnessed their "Duty to Act" requirement, first hand. I have limited training, know my limits(do not cause more harm) and even some experience. I was injured(sprained finger) and put myself in harm's way of heavy traffic in the last 12 months providing maritime assistance when everyone else was oblivious or apathetic. I try to practice what I preach... it's a mindful exercise which I have to always work on.

hrnnnnnn 10y ago

It's called the Bystander Effect, and the most disturbing thing about it is that its strength is in proportion to the number of people present. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

tunap 10y ago
Yep. Take charge until an authority arrives. Engage the victim, if conscious, ask questions and gather any info you can to give to 1st responder to arrive on scene. Give direct commands to specific peoples. Do NOT make matters worse by moving the injured unless immediate danger is present. Most importantly, educate yourself/certify beforehand. I used my CPR cert once 25 years ago, yet I still renew it every year. Oh yeah, when the pro does arrive, don't take it personally if he/she is brusque or 'rude'. They are sometimes brutally efficient.
- rsync 10y ago
  Also: do what you can to create, and maintain, a decent ingress into the scene for emergency personnel - clear a hallway, get the doors opened, and keep the way in and out clear.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  > Oh yeah, when the pro does arrive, don't take it personally if he/she is brusque or 'rude'. They are sometimes brutally efficient. This. Also, for some medical personnel being brusque and (apparently) unattached is the only way for them to not crack under seeing death every day. It's a fucking hard job and I highly respect everyone in the field.
noir_lord 10y ago
Years ago was cycling to work in winter and on the side of the road a young woman was sat in her panties and T-shirt vest crying, this was a main road, she was shivering violently, I stopped, rang for an ambulance and the police and gave her my outershell and fleece while the ambulance got there. She'd been sat at the side of the road for at least half an hour in rush hour and one other person had phoned in but not stopped. I didn't know about the bystander effect at the time but ever since then if I see someone I distress/hurt I act straightaway on the assumption no one else has and it won't hurt if they have. I was slightly ashamed of the people in my home town that day tbh.
vidarh 10y ago
My favourite description of dealing with this is from Cialdini's Influence, where he describes getting in a car accident, and worrying about the bystander effect as people drove past without stopping, and how he applied his knowledge about it to counter the effect. The most important aspect is basically that your chances of getting help goes up dramatically if you address specific people and ask for specific action ("you in the red shirt, please call 911" rather than "help"). Once people understand that there is a problem, and nobody else has it in hand, and they've been asked, chances are they will help, and once one person has started helping, the odds that more people will help of their own accord goes up significantly as well. Incidentally this translates to many aspects of life. If you ever want a group of people to take action, address specific people and get them to start. Once someone starts it becomes far harder for others to remain idle, and the first people are far more likely to start if you specifically task them with it.
- hrnnnnnn 10y ago
  I have observed exactly this in team group chats at work, where addressing the group results in being ignored, but didn't make the link until you brought up that car accident example.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tunap 10y ago

Indeed, you never know until you're in the moment. Several first responders, friends and family, have enlightened me with their experiences and I have witnessed their "Duty to Act" requirement, first hand. I have limited training, know my limits(do not cause more harm) and even some experience. I was injured(sprained finger) and put myself in harm's way of heavy traffic in the last 12 months providing maritime assistance when everyone else was oblivious or apathetic. I try to practice what I preach... it's a mindful exercise which I have to always work on.