6 ms·

End to Democratic Primary:Anonymous Super-Delegates Declare Winner Through Media

29 points by etiam 10y ago

bigredhdl 10y ago
Wow! Glen Greenwald put into words (much better than I could of course) some of the thoughts that ran through my head when the AP story showed up on my twitter feed. The timing really made it smell like an attempt to pull the rug out from Sanders the day before the California primary.
- tellarin 10y ago
  If this is indeed the case, I really hope it backfires. That would be very interesting to see.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- JeremyBanks 10y ago
  Why will this hurt Bernie's turnout more than Clinton's? From her campaign's recent posts, Clinton seems worried that this coverage could cost her points today.
  - nameless912 10y ago
    While it's not likely, it would be very interesting from a statistical and sociological perspective. A ridiculously inflated victory would definitely let Bernie ride all the way to the convention in a Mad Max-esque blaze of glory. The fact that he won't make it past there almost wouldn't matter at that point, it'd just be one giant-ass middle finger to everyone in the party leadership.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Why will this hurt Bernie's turnout more than Clinton's? Because once the media crowns a winner (or even just declares a candidate practically eliminated), they tend to underperform their polls even if they haven't publicly conceded. (When a winner is crowned, it also tends to depress turnout for the whole contest, which has to be a concern for downballot Democrats in California, especially with the top-two primary system for non-Presidential races which actually makes the primary more like the general election in a general + runoff system than a normal primary; while it probably doesn't matter a lot in the statewide races or areas which are Democratic strongholds, it could matter in other places. Actually, in some of the Democratic-favored races it could make the difference between two Democrats advancing in the top-two system and a Republican actually making the cut, so it might matter even there.) > Clinton seems worried that this coverage could cost her points today. That's not what you'd usually expect based on history, but its certainly possible (that Clinton supporters could stay home because they don't feel the need to vote, and Sanders supporters show up as a protest to the media coronation), and given the effect it has on interpretation of the results, its the expectation the Clinton campaign would want voice concern about and use to shape media coverage whether or not its a real concern.
mark_l_watson 10y ago
I am disgusted with the democratic establishment. I am in my 60s and a life long democrat, BTW. I plan on changing to Independent status and will stop making contributions. My 94 year old Dad said that the super delegates are the opposite of democracy, and I agree. The real problem is that Sanders (and also Trump) hold political opinions that are against the financial interests of the military industrial complex and also the one world government crowd.
- intopieces 10y ago
  If you're not a fan of Superdelegates, you must really be upset with the Sanders' campaign for choosing Tad Devine as their top adviser. Devine was "instrumental in the creation of the superdelegate process," and is one of its ardent defenders. [0] In fact, the Sanders' campaign strategy now is to 'flip' the Superdelegates even though Clinton has a majority of the popular vote [1] [0] http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/super-delegates-center-democratic-nomination-fight-again-n516891 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/super-delegate... [1] http://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination http://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now...
  - mattnewton 10y ago
    I don't believe anyone in the Sanders Campaign is serious anymore about actually cinching the nomination. They were certainly after the initial results were promising, but Bernie got further than he expected. Now since flipping the super delegates is their only legal and conceivable way to win, and they need to appear to win to continue, it's their stated strategy. It seems to me like the main goal is to continue in the Media spotlight talking about progressive issues, and funnel money into more progressive candidates to change the face of the party. People like Tim Canova in Florida going after establishment democratic seats. I think it's an excellent strategy and will make use of the following Bernie has gathered to actually affect domestic change where change is most needed in the legislative branch.
- cafard 10y ago
  Wikipedia this morning showed Clinton leaving Sanders 55 to 42 percent in popular votes cast this primary season. At what level of lead will you consider that Clinton may have a claim to the nomination?
bayonetz 10y ago
Voter suppression at its finest. Like him or not, we should be embarrassed by he unfair treatment Sanders has received at every turn of this race.
fhood 10y ago
May I remind the seething masses, unpopular though this opinion may be, that more people have voted for Hillary than Bernie. They just tend to be less vocal about who they support on the internet.
- Terr_ 10y ago
  The editorial already points that out. I think the real issue here is people are being blasted with some misleadingly official-looking "Election Over! X totally and indisputably Wins!" news, the day before a big set of elections.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > May I remind the seething masses, unpopular though this opinion may be, that more people have voted for Hillary than Bernie. Which would probably be more meaningful if (1) all states had similar election systems for Democratic delegates, and (2) all states voted at the same time. > They just tend to be less vocal about who they support on the internet. No, that's not at all true.
  - dllthomas 10y ago
    > No, that's not at all true. Given the demographics, I suspect that it is at least a little true.
  - fhood 10y ago
    My point is that going into a complete fervor over how Bernie was cheated out of the nomination seems counterproductive. First as an american citizen I feel it is your patriotic duty vote anti-Trump rather than pro-anyone. And I am worried by the number of Bernie supporters that seem to feel that if the primary doesn't go their way they aren't going to vote at all. No vote is half a vote for Trump.

29 points by etiam 10y ago

Wow! Glen Greenwald put into words (much better than I could of course) some of the thoughts that ran through my head when the AP story showed up on my twitter feed. The timing really made it smell like an attempt to pull the rug out from Sanders the day before the California primary.

tellarin 10y ago
If this is indeed the case, I really hope it backfires. That would be very interesting to see.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
JeremyBanks 10y ago
Why will this hurt Bernie's turnout more than Clinton's? From her campaign's recent posts, Clinton seems worried that this coverage could cost her points today.
- nameless912 10y ago
  While it's not likely, it would be very interesting from a statistical and sociological perspective. A ridiculously inflated victory would definitely let Bernie ride all the way to the convention in a Mad Max-esque blaze of glory. The fact that he won't make it past there almost wouldn't matter at that point, it'd just be one giant-ass middle finger to everyone in the party leadership.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Why will this hurt Bernie's turnout more than Clinton's? Because once the media crowns a winner (or even just declares a candidate practically eliminated), they tend to underperform their polls even if they haven't publicly conceded. (When a winner is crowned, it also tends to depress turnout for the whole contest, which has to be a concern for downballot Democrats in California, especially with the top-two primary system for non-Presidential races which actually makes the primary more like the general election in a general + runoff system than a normal primary; while it probably doesn't matter a lot in the statewide races or areas which are Democratic strongholds, it could matter in other places. Actually, in some of the Democratic-favored races it could make the difference between two Democrats advancing in the top-two system and a Republican actually making the cut, so it might matter even there.) > Clinton seems worried that this coverage could cost her points today. That's not what you'd usually expect based on history, but its certainly possible (that Clinton supporters could stay home because they don't feel the need to vote, and Sanders supporters show up as a protest to the media coronation), and given the effect it has on interpretation of the results, its the expectation the Clinton campaign would want voice concern about and use to shape media coverage whether or not its a real concern.

mark_l_watson 10y ago

I am disgusted with the democratic establishment. I am in my 60s and a life long democrat, BTW. I plan on changing to Independent status and will stop making contributions. My 94 year old Dad said that the super delegates are the opposite of democracy, and I agree. The real problem is that Sanders (and also Trump) hold political opinions that are against the financial interests of the military industrial complex and also the one world government crowd.

intopieces 10y ago
If you're not a fan of Superdelegates, you must really be upset with the Sanders' campaign for choosing Tad Devine as their top adviser. Devine was "instrumental in the creation of the superdelegate process," and is one of its ardent defenders. [0] In fact, the Sanders' campaign strategy now is to 'flip' the Superdelegates even though Clinton has a majority of the popular vote [1] [0] http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/super-delegates-center-democratic-nomination-fight-again-n516891 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/super-delegate... [1] http://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination http://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now...
- mattnewton 10y ago
  I don't believe anyone in the Sanders Campaign is serious anymore about actually cinching the nomination. They were certainly after the initial results were promising, but Bernie got further than he expected. Now since flipping the super delegates is their only legal and conceivable way to win, and they need to appear to win to continue, it's their stated strategy. It seems to me like the main goal is to continue in the Media spotlight talking about progressive issues, and funnel money into more progressive candidates to change the face of the party. People like Tim Canova in Florida going after establishment democratic seats. I think it's an excellent strategy and will make use of the following Bernie has gathered to actually affect domestic change where change is most needed in the legislative branch.
cafard 10y ago
Wikipedia this morning showed Clinton leaving Sanders 55 to 42 percent in popular votes cast this primary season. At what level of lead will you consider that Clinton may have a claim to the nomination?

bayonetz 10y ago

Voter suppression at its finest. Like him or not, we should be embarrassed by he unfair treatment Sanders has received at every turn of this race.

fhood 10y ago

May I remind the seething masses, unpopular though this opinion may be, that more people have voted for Hillary than Bernie. They just tend to be less vocal about who they support on the internet.

Terr_ 10y ago
The editorial already points that out. I think the real issue here is people are being blasted with some misleadingly official-looking "Election Over! X totally and indisputably Wins!" news, the day before a big set of elections.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> May I remind the seething masses, unpopular though this opinion may be, that more people have voted for Hillary than Bernie. Which would probably be more meaningful if (1) all states had similar election systems for Democratic delegates, and (2) all states voted at the same time. > They just tend to be less vocal about who they support on the internet. No, that's not at all true.
- dllthomas 10y ago
  > No, that's not at all true. Given the demographics, I suspect that it is at least a little true.
- fhood 10y ago
  My point is that going into a complete fervor over how Bernie was cheated out of the nomination seems counterproductive. First as an american citizen I feel it is your patriotic duty vote anti-Trump rather than pro-anyone. And I am worried by the number of Bernie supporters that seem to feel that if the primary doesn't go their way they aren't going to vote at all. No vote is half a vote for Trump.