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The "hard problem of consciousness" is just yet another way of Dualists to pretend they aren't Dualists while saying Dualists things. Either couciousness is th
by Marazan 10y ago
The "hard problem of consciousness" is just yet another way of Dualists to pretend they aren't Dualists while saying Dualists things.
Either couciousness is the result of physical processes or it is the result of magic. If it is the result of physical processes there is no hard problem. If it is a result of magic then just come out and say you believe I magic.
- daveguy 10y ago> If it is the result of physical processes there is no hard problem. I'm not sure if a less true statement has ever been uttered. My guess is no.
- codeulike 10y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11853118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11853118
- collyw 10y ago"Either couciousness is the result of physical processes or it is the result of magic." Why is it the result of magic? Because you can't understand it?
- codeulike 10y agoBecause if its not the result of physical processes then magic is all that is left.
- RivieraKid 10y agoOk, let's define "non-physical" = "magic", I have no problem with that, it's important to agree on word definitions in any argument.
- mh-cx 10y agoI think metaphysics is the more common technical term.
- RivieraKid 10y agoWell, dualism is very similar to how I see the world, so I guess I'm a dualist, at least approximately. Why would anyone pretend not to be a dualist? Consciousness is not a physical thing. If you insist on calling everything outside of physics magic, I'm fine with that, it's just terminology.
- abritinthebay 10y ago> Consciousness is not a physical thing Citation needed. You can't prove that, and the only honest answer right now is "we don't know how it works, though we have some clues."
- RivieraKid 10y agoWell the way I look at it, consciousness (perceptions, feelings) is the only thing that exists, physical world is just a mental model consistent with our perceptions. Physics is basically a description of the patterns in our consciousness. For example, we see and hear rocks always drop down - so we imagine there's gravity causing it. By the way, this is not an opinion or just an idea that I like, after a lot of thinking I see it as the only worldview that makes sense, i.e. it can be "proven" (in a very loose sense of that word).
- aninhumer 10y agoConciousness may indeed be the result of physical processes, but one cannot deduce the occurrence of experience/qualia from our current understanding, nor can I conceive of any physical system that would allow that. The only way I can see to get conciousness is by adding a new rule that says certain physical things cause it to occur. If that makes me a Dualist, so be it, but I honestly don't understand the alternative position.
- Marazan 10y agoThe alternative is that counciousness is a social construct humans have created to make themselves feel special. Given that peopel can experience phantom 'qualia' when their brains have direct electrical stimulation there is no evidence that counciousness comes from magic and every evidence that it comes from the staggering complexity of the brain.
- aninhumer 10y ago>every evidence that it comes from the staggering complexity of the brain. Yes, based on the rest of science, that seems likely. My point is that I have no idea how that can possibly work, on a fundamental level. I have no idea what kind of physical system could exist inside the brain to cause my conscious experience to occur. The only way I can conceive of a system to explain it is adding a new rule that says "When X pattern occurs, it experiences conciousness".