5 ms·

I'm trying Firefox about once a year because I want to like it for being independent and privacy minded. But every time I find myself going back to other browse

I'm trying Firefox about once a year because I want to like it for being independent and privacy minded. But every time I find myself going back to other browsers for seemingly minor reasons. The most important one is that firefox opens new windows a few hundered milliseconds too slowly (on Mac OS X). Just a little bit too slowly for me to just hit Cmd+N and blindly start typing a url. I have to stop and pay attention to when the window is ready, hundereds of times a day. Another annoyance, a much less important one, is that Firefox wastes a lot of screen real estate at the top.

joelthelion 10y ago
You open new windows hundreds of times a day?
- fauigerzigerk 10y ago
  Yes
  - joelthelion 10y ago
    Can you explain why? I'm genuinely curious.
    - lloeki 10y ago
      Windows as tab groups. Some of those are quite persistent, but many are very transient and don't live longer than a dozen minutes. There are OSes with potent window managers. Ideally tabs should even be part of the WM itself† and not be reinvented across each app††, or disappear altogether (e.g Chrome on Android, Exposé/Mission Control per app window grouping) † possibly even allowing tabs to be a mix of apps †† features such as pinned tabs, the defunct Firefox tab groups/overview, Vivaldi are especially egregious examples.
    - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
      The primary reason is that I search for everything instead of navigating to it on individual websites. That includes function signatures and other API stuff I need all day long. And I don't keep windows or tabs open because they are hard to find again and start to pile up. So I open and close them a lot. I don't use the bookmarks menu directly. I just open a new window and start typing. Either the page I'm looking for is in the auto complete or I hit enter and it goes to the search engine. To sum it up, I have trouble remembering hierarchies and various navigation and UX ideas that web designers come up with. I have trouble visually grasping what's on a page (it's a kind of disability I always had). So instead I search. In fact, that's also one of the great things about Firefox. Typing in its location bar lets me find other open windows and tabs. I love that.
      - the8472 10y ago
        > Typing in its location bar lets me find other open windows and tabs. I love that. Prefix with % and it will return only that kind of result.
    - sametmax 10y ago
      Because it's an easier workflow. Open a new tab, type the address (or clic the thumb) and go. If you do it on a current tab, you are always in danger to erase your current tab by mistake from mistyping the open in new tab shortcut. Another thing is that if you have your hand on the mouse, it's faster to click + than to type said shortcut. What's more, FF can't hold as many opened tab as I wish without slowing down. So I have to clean regularly, and so I reopen tabs I closed 10 minutes ago.
      - joncrocks 10y ago
        There's a plugin called TabsMixPlus - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-Gb/firefox/addon/tab-mix-plus/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-Gb/firefox/addon/tab-mix-plus/ This allows you to ensure that you open new tabs when you want/customises tab behaviour.
        sametmax 10y ago
        I used it a lot years ago, but not so much anymore.
- sametmax 10y ago
  I don't know about him, but I do. And this latency is indeed annoying. I'm still in FF out of sheer believe in FOSS in general and Mozilla in particular, but right now every single action I tried is just faster on chrome.
__s 10y ago
You can configure Firefox to not show most toolbars, leaving only url bar with a few buttons on the same line. Make sure to click the option for small back/forwarrd
- fauigerzigerk 10y ago
  I know, but that still uses twice as much vertical space as a tabless Safari window. It's not a huge problem though.
  - jccalhoun 10y ago
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-better/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-...
    - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
      Thanks, but that makes my main problem with slowly opening windows even worse.
oolongCat 10y ago
>screen real estate That's one of my biggest complains about ff, using chrome somehow feels clean because of this.
- sammoth 10y ago
  Huh? I just compared the two on Windows and Chrome wastes ~3 pixels more for the chrome at the top than Firefox does. Not only this, Firefox is customisable using style sheets! You can just reduce the unused padding yourself using for example, Stylish
  - oolongCat 10y ago
    Jesus! you are right, I am honestly confused now. I always thought ff used more space than chrome. Even now looking at the two makes me feel as if ff is some how bulkier, I am looking at the same page, and ff look really huge EVEN IF ITS NOT!!... That's really odd.
  - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
    On the Mac, Firefox uses a bit more space than Chrome. Safari uses only half as much.
    - cname 10y ago
      I have all three browsers open on Mac OS with multiple tabs open in each. I measured the tab plus address bars of each: - Firefox: 79px - Chrome: 72px - Safari: 61px
      - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
        You left out the most important case with only one/zero tabs where Safari gives up the space otherwise used by tabs and the other browsers don't. That's about 90% of my browser windows and it makes Safari use only half as much space as the other browsers.

joelthelion 10y ago

You open new windows hundreds of times a day?

fauigerzigerk 10y ago
Yes
- joelthelion 10y ago
  Can you explain why? I'm genuinely curious.
  - lloeki 10y ago
    Windows as tab groups. Some of those are quite persistent, but many are very transient and don't live longer than a dozen minutes. There are OSes with potent window managers. Ideally tabs should even be part of the WM itself† and not be reinvented across each app††, or disappear altogether (e.g Chrome on Android, Exposé/Mission Control per app window grouping) † possibly even allowing tabs to be a mix of apps †† features such as pinned tabs, the defunct Firefox tab groups/overview, Vivaldi are especially egregious examples.
  - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
    The primary reason is that I search for everything instead of navigating to it on individual websites. That includes function signatures and other API stuff I need all day long. And I don't keep windows or tabs open because they are hard to find again and start to pile up. So I open and close them a lot. I don't use the bookmarks menu directly. I just open a new window and start typing. Either the page I'm looking for is in the auto complete or I hit enter and it goes to the search engine. To sum it up, I have trouble remembering hierarchies and various navigation and UX ideas that web designers come up with. I have trouble visually grasping what's on a page (it's a kind of disability I always had). So instead I search. In fact, that's also one of the great things about Firefox. Typing in its location bar lets me find other open windows and tabs. I love that.
    - the8472 10y ago
      > Typing in its location bar lets me find other open windows and tabs. I love that. Prefix with % and it will return only that kind of result.
  - sametmax 10y ago
    Because it's an easier workflow. Open a new tab, type the address (or clic the thumb) and go. If you do it on a current tab, you are always in danger to erase your current tab by mistake from mistyping the open in new tab shortcut. Another thing is that if you have your hand on the mouse, it's faster to click + than to type said shortcut. What's more, FF can't hold as many opened tab as I wish without slowing down. So I have to clean regularly, and so I reopen tabs I closed 10 minutes ago.
    - joncrocks 10y ago
      There's a plugin called TabsMixPlus - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-Gb/firefox/addon/tab-mix-plus/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-Gb/firefox/addon/tab-mix-plus/ This allows you to ensure that you open new tabs when you want/customises tab behaviour.
      - sametmax 10y ago
        I used it a lot years ago, but not so much anymore.
sametmax 10y ago
I don't know about him, but I do. And this latency is indeed annoying. I'm still in FF out of sheer believe in FOSS in general and Mozilla in particular, but right now every single action I tried is just faster on chrome.

__s 10y ago

You can configure Firefox to not show most toolbars, leaving only url bar with a few buttons on the same line. Make sure to click the option for small back/forwarrd

fauigerzigerk 10y ago
I know, but that still uses twice as much vertical space as a tabless Safari window. It's not a huge problem though.
- jccalhoun 10y ago
  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-better/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-...
  - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
    Thanks, but that makes my main problem with slowly opening windows even worse.

oolongCat 10y ago

>screen real estate That's one of my biggest complains about ff, using chrome somehow feels clean because of this.

sammoth 10y ago
Huh? I just compared the two on Windows and Chrome wastes ~3 pixels more for the chrome at the top than Firefox does. Not only this, Firefox is customisable using style sheets! You can just reduce the unused padding yourself using for example, Stylish
- oolongCat 10y ago
  Jesus! you are right, I am honestly confused now. I always thought ff used more space than chrome. Even now looking at the two makes me feel as if ff is some how bulkier, I am looking at the same page, and ff look really huge EVEN IF ITS NOT!!... That's really odd.
- fauigerzigerk 10y ago
  On the Mac, Firefox uses a bit more space than Chrome. Safari uses only half as much.
  - cname 10y ago
    I have all three browsers open on Mac OS with multiple tabs open in each. I measured the tab plus address bars of each: - Firefox: 79px - Chrome: 72px - Safari: 61px
    - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
      You left out the most important case with only one/zero tabs where Safari gives up the space otherwise used by tabs and the other browsers don't. That's about 90% of my browser windows and it makes Safari use only half as much space as the other browsers.