5 ms·

Contrary to many of the comments here, I think they did a good job of considering what it takes to make something foreboding without sounding like "here be trea

by jtolmar 10y ago

Contrary to many of the comments here, I think they did a good job of considering what it takes to make something foreboding without sounding like "here be treasure." The pseudo-mystical messages sound hokey, but they're effectively a backup system in case the straight-up "This is atomic waste, here's a description of atomic waste" descriptions are incomprehensible to future generations. And the more primitive communications deserve more consideration, because that's the harder part. Additionally, I don't think the "no marker, anonymous patch of ground" plan is sound. 10000 years is a long time, which will hopefully be inhabited by peoples more advanced than us, and they could do a lot of digging in that time. That said, the approach I'd suggest would just be a big plain monument that's physically obnoxious to get around. Although the insides of the pyramids have been robbed, the pyramids themselves will last another 10000 years, and I doubt anyone will try to mine under them during that time. And experience has shown that the best way to preserve a language is to make sure there's a large enough sample for someone to brute-force it, so these pyramids could contain chambers full of detailed explanations with pictures.

kbart 10y ago
"Additionally, I don't think the "no marker, anonymous patch of ground" plan is sound. 10000 years is a long time, which will hopefully be inhabited by peoples more advanced than us, and they could do a lot of digging in that time." If these people are more advanced, there's no point to teach them the dangers of radiation as they will be well aware of that already.
- twright0 10y ago
  They might be aware of the dangers of radiation in the abstract, but they might not be able to read our current marking systems to learn that there is a specific threat from radiation at that specific location. 10,000 years is a very long time to try to preserve information across.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
    If the culture is advanced there are ways we could express the concept of radiation without needing a common language. There are a lot of innate scientific patterns to draw on, like the structure of an atom, the periodic table or a mushroom cloud.
    - grkvlt 10y ago
      A mushroom cloud just connotes a large explosion near the ground. Atomic structure may be the best to go with, since pictorial descriptions of alpha, beta and gamma radiation are found in every high-school science textbook. One issue with an advanced culture is that they may be rebuilding to the same technological state as we were around 1950, so when they find the site they go: "Cool, radioactive stuff! Might be Uranium! Just what we need to fuel our fission reactors..." Then, they discover it's merely low-level waste after building an enormous open-cast mine on the site, and polluting the countryside for miles around. I believe this was a scenario they considered, with some kind of warning marker seeded in the backfill above the underground chambers. It would show up in the tailings of any exploratory drill-holes, as chips of plastic (?) with a radiation hazard symbol.
- proactivesvcs 10y ago
  Society can lose information as time progresses. Modern medicine is only just starting to re-discover how important state of mind is when packaging, describing and using drugs. That's the case despite the fact there haven't been any large-scale catastrophes that caused the information to be lost. In 10,000 years who knows what we might have forgotten?
  - vectorjohn 10y ago
    Not nuclear waste.
    - omginternets 10y ago
      Assuming no civilizational collapse happens. Consider the dark ages: much knowledge from greek and roman antiquity was lost, only to be rediscovered at the renaissance. It's entirely conceivable that knowledge of ionising radiation could be lost for a similar period of time if, say, a solar flare were to destroy all telecom infrastructure and subsequent wars were to destroy printed works. Unlikely? Maybe, but certainly possible.
    - dsl 10y ago
      Lets say tomorrow we figure out how to drill down and tap the geothermal from the core of the planet. Pretty much overnight the coal, gas, and nuclear industries become obsolete. Nobody will be continuing studies in the field of nuclear. Knowledge will be lost. Heck, 5,000 after the pyramids were built we still don't know how.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Nobody will be continuing studies in the field of nuclear. Unless they are interested in powering things that aren't tethered to the surface of the earth. Which, you know, is something humans have been interested in...
      - kbenson 10y ago
        Incentives will shift and realign, but nuclear will still have some development. There's a reason it's used in submarines and aircraft carriers, and geothermal isn't going to solve that, even with vastly increased battery technology.
kozak 10y ago
Something like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower ?
stared 10y ago
(My first, and last, conspirationist comment here.) Wow, so maybe the Egyptian pyramids were indeed built (or at least - planned) by aliens, so to cover a dangerous site... let's dig under then to see if it's true!
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
The pyramids were covered in a beautiful coat of white limestone, which was robbed within a century of their construction.

by jtolmar 10y ago

kbart 10y ago

"Additionally, I don't think the "no marker, anonymous patch of ground" plan is sound. 10000 years is a long time, which will hopefully be inhabited by peoples more advanced than us, and they could do a lot of digging in that time." If these people are more advanced, there's no point to teach them the dangers of radiation as they will be well aware of that already.

twright0 10y ago
They might be aware of the dangers of radiation in the abstract, but they might not be able to read our current marking systems to learn that there is a specific threat from radiation at that specific location. 10,000 years is a very long time to try to preserve information across.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  If the culture is advanced there are ways we could express the concept of radiation without needing a common language. There are a lot of innate scientific patterns to draw on, like the structure of an atom, the periodic table or a mushroom cloud.
  - grkvlt 10y ago
    A mushroom cloud just connotes a large explosion near the ground. Atomic structure may be the best to go with, since pictorial descriptions of alpha, beta and gamma radiation are found in every high-school science textbook. One issue with an advanced culture is that they may be rebuilding to the same technological state as we were around 1950, so when they find the site they go: "Cool, radioactive stuff! Might be Uranium! Just what we need to fuel our fission reactors..." Then, they discover it's merely low-level waste after building an enormous open-cast mine on the site, and polluting the countryside for miles around. I believe this was a scenario they considered, with some kind of warning marker seeded in the backfill above the underground chambers. It would show up in the tailings of any exploratory drill-holes, as chips of plastic (?) with a radiation hazard symbol.
proactivesvcs 10y ago
Society can lose information as time progresses. Modern medicine is only just starting to re-discover how important state of mind is when packaging, describing and using drugs. That's the case despite the fact there haven't been any large-scale catastrophes that caused the information to be lost. In 10,000 years who knows what we might have forgotten?
- vectorjohn 10y ago
  Not nuclear waste.
  - omginternets 10y ago
    Assuming no civilizational collapse happens. Consider the dark ages: much knowledge from greek and roman antiquity was lost, only to be rediscovered at the renaissance. It's entirely conceivable that knowledge of ionising radiation could be lost for a similar period of time if, say, a solar flare were to destroy all telecom infrastructure and subsequent wars were to destroy printed works. Unlikely? Maybe, but certainly possible.
  - dsl 10y ago
    Lets say tomorrow we figure out how to drill down and tap the geothermal from the core of the planet. Pretty much overnight the coal, gas, and nuclear industries become obsolete. Nobody will be continuing studies in the field of nuclear. Knowledge will be lost. Heck, 5,000 after the pyramids were built we still don't know how.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > Nobody will be continuing studies in the field of nuclear. Unless they are interested in powering things that aren't tethered to the surface of the earth. Which, you know, is something humans have been interested in...
    - kbenson 10y ago
      Incentives will shift and realign, but nuclear will still have some development. There's a reason it's used in submarines and aircraft carriers, and geothermal isn't going to solve that, even with vastly increased battery technology.

kozak 10y ago

Something like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower ?

stared 10y ago

(My first, and last, conspirationist comment here.) Wow, so maybe the Egyptian pyramids were indeed built (or at least - planned) by aliens, so to cover a dangerous site... let's dig under then to see if it's true!

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

The pyramids were covered in a beautiful coat of white limestone, which was robbed within a century of their construction.