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Urbit is a republic. Its government has one task: promoting, preserving and protecting Urbit. It may take any legal action which advances this goal. That sound

by panic 10y ago

Urbit is a republic. Its government has one task: promoting, preserving and protecting Urbit. It may take any legal action which advances this goal. That sounds a bit scary!

jesstaa 10y ago
Given the CTO's views it's a lot more scary.
- sesteel 10y ago
  Interesting, I suspect this is what you are referring to. http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_29730782/controversy-surrounds-speaker-curtis-yarvin-at-boulder-programming http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_29730782/controve...
gaze 10y ago
I think if people read Curtis's writing under Mencius Moldbug, nobody would touch urbit with a ten foot pole. He believes that white people are genetically endowed with a higher IQ than black people. Why are people giving him money? This is why we can't have nice things.
- hodwik2 10y ago
  I do not believe IQ is heritable -- racially, or otherwise. Full stop. Intelligence is, by my estimation, entirely a function of nurture, not nature. Those exceptions are in situations where it is lacking due to handicap. Which is to say, everyone's brain has the same chance at brilliance (barring fetal alcohol syndrome, neglect, etc.) if they are not intellectually handicapped, and are provided the same child-rearing and temperament. But, if you believed IQ to be heritable, as many of you do, it would seem a fair guess that it would be distributed unequally among races, as is height, hormone levels, muscularity, and so on. I don't believe this, as I don't believe IQ is heritable, but I don't see how one could possibly buy into the heritability of IQ while vehemently denying that it could be spread unevenly among races. You guys, to me, all seem to be grappling with two wildly incompatible ideas -- that race can't effect intelligence, and that intelligence is heritable. You'll need to choose which it is. I'm happy, even having read his (wrong) ideas on IQ, to entertain Urbit because he seems no more wrong than the rest of you. Cheers.
  - Throwaway585250 10y ago
    Heritability of traits can be measured by twin studies. Some people have spent quite a lot of time doing this for IQ. Others have even identified some of the genes that are correlated with high IQ, TOR1A being one of the more interesting ones. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this area of research. Regarding population genetics, I don't think it matters as much as people seem to think. Han Chinese are short, but Yao Ming is tall, and there's no contradiction in that. Regarding Urbit, I certainly hope that it isn't heritable, or for that matter infectious, because it seems totally opaque.
    - hodwik2 10y ago
      >"Heritability of traits can be measured by twin studies." No, correlations between traits can be measured in twin studies, but they do not prove a causal link. In the realm of intelligence, it could be (and I would argue) that looking like a nerd generally proceeds becoming one. People become social outcasts, and then become intelligent as a defense mechanism. That is,once in that nerd social caste, a greater percentage of people will find themselves using their brains more often. As a result, they get smarter, and score better on IQ tests. Because twins are liable to look the same way, have the same temperament, same physique, etc. they are liable to be pushed into the same sorts of social groups, and as a result the same sorts of interests, ultimately pushing their IQs up or down together. This would not mean that IQ is heritable, but that traits which can have a forcing effect on nurture (and thus IQ) are heritable.
      - Throwaway585250 10y ago
        How about torsion dystonia? Increased IQ can be observed before the onset of the disease, even when matched to comparable members of the same population. What evidence would falsify your position?
        hodwik2 10y ago
        A few things on torsio dystonia. One, Torsion Dystonia could just as easily be effecting something else which effects IQ. Two, the studies on Torsion Dystonia decided to only study people who were not showing symptoms. This means they were selecting around heredity, since those who show symptoms and those who don't were not divided on gene expression -- there is only one allele in play as far as we know. Three, the study was 14 persons. Removing a single person from the sample could have swung the data to say the opposite.
- jmspring 10y ago
  Ah ha! I forgot an earlier comment of mine where one's political views shouldn't impact conference attendance. In this case, when talking about a project, the specific nature, obfuscation, and seemingly random need to make things harder to understand than they should be, my opinion on the project is the opposite of my views on a speaking engagement.
- sigusr1 10y ago
  Is your assumption that IQ isn't heritable, or that genes don't vary with populations along racial lines, or what?
- emmelaich 10y ago
  Do you use transistors? Then stop, because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley
  - trbvm2 10y ago
    I agreed with you at first but reading through Urbit's docs and the vox article linked in thread clarified the relationship between the system design and the author's political ideology. Many of the design choices did not make sense to me until I understood that the author basically leads a thought current around a return to aristocracy. With that, there does seem to be some reason to avoid the software simply because it may be designed to produce a particular political outcome. https://urbit.org/posts/address-space/ https://urbit.org/posts/address-space/ http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained
- pythia__ 10y ago
  Devil's advocate here. What nice things would we have if nobody gave money to people who believe that? Or, if that is what you meant, if the belief itself was extinct?
notthemessiah 10y ago
Just wait until you read the political views of those who are developing of which Urbit is an instantiation. It's a political philosophy designed to appeal to the Silicon Valley elite who want to imagine themselves as kings: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement Unqualified Reservations + Bitcoin = URBit
- daxorid 10y ago
  Even Vox is less biased than Rational Wiki on the topic. Much better overview: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained
- JeremyBanks 10y ago
  RationalWiki is biased trash that can't be trusted for anything.
  - middleclick 10y ago
    Without actually reading what it says, you seem to be attacking the source rather than the content.
    - kofejnik 10y ago
      ironically, this is what the parent comment is doing - attacking the author and not the message
      - vertex-four 10y ago
        The software is heavily based on the author's political views - and allows the author to shape the network into whatever they want, being based on a system of "digital landlords" who have significant control over the users who work on their "land" - so it makes sense to look into said political views.
        10y ago

by panic 10y ago

Urbit is a republic. Its government has one task: promoting, preserving and protecting Urbit. It may take any legal action which advances this goal. That sounds a bit scary!

jesstaa 10y ago

Given the CTO's views it's a lot more scary.

sesteel 10y ago
Interesting, I suspect this is what you are referring to. http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_29730782/controversy-surrounds-speaker-curtis-yarvin-at-boulder-programming http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_29730782/controve...

gaze 10y ago

I think if people read Curtis's writing under Mencius Moldbug, nobody would touch urbit with a ten foot pole. He believes that white people are genetically endowed with a higher IQ than black people. Why are people giving him money? This is why we can't have nice things.

hodwik2 10y ago
I do not believe IQ is heritable -- racially, or otherwise. Full stop. Intelligence is, by my estimation, entirely a function of nurture, not nature. Those exceptions are in situations where it is lacking due to handicap. Which is to say, everyone's brain has the same chance at brilliance (barring fetal alcohol syndrome, neglect, etc.) if they are not intellectually handicapped, and are provided the same child-rearing and temperament. But, if you believed IQ to be heritable, as many of you do, it would seem a fair guess that it would be distributed unequally among races, as is height, hormone levels, muscularity, and so on. I don't believe this, as I don't believe IQ is heritable, but I don't see how one could possibly buy into the heritability of IQ while vehemently denying that it could be spread unevenly among races. You guys, to me, all seem to be grappling with two wildly incompatible ideas -- that race can't effect intelligence, and that intelligence is heritable. You'll need to choose which it is. I'm happy, even having read his (wrong) ideas on IQ, to entertain Urbit because he seems no more wrong than the rest of you. Cheers.
- Throwaway585250 10y ago
  Heritability of traits can be measured by twin studies. Some people have spent quite a lot of time doing this for IQ. Others have even identified some of the genes that are correlated with high IQ, TOR1A being one of the more interesting ones. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this area of research. Regarding population genetics, I don't think it matters as much as people seem to think. Han Chinese are short, but Yao Ming is tall, and there's no contradiction in that. Regarding Urbit, I certainly hope that it isn't heritable, or for that matter infectious, because it seems totally opaque.
  - hodwik2 10y ago
    >"Heritability of traits can be measured by twin studies." No, correlations between traits can be measured in twin studies, but they do not prove a causal link. In the realm of intelligence, it could be (and I would argue) that looking like a nerd generally proceeds becoming one. People become social outcasts, and then become intelligent as a defense mechanism. That is,once in that nerd social caste, a greater percentage of people will find themselves using their brains more often. As a result, they get smarter, and score better on IQ tests. Because twins are liable to look the same way, have the same temperament, same physique, etc. they are liable to be pushed into the same sorts of social groups, and as a result the same sorts of interests, ultimately pushing their IQs up or down together. This would not mean that IQ is heritable, but that traits which can have a forcing effect on nurture (and thus IQ) are heritable.
    - Throwaway585250 10y ago
      How about torsion dystonia? Increased IQ can be observed before the onset of the disease, even when matched to comparable members of the same population. What evidence would falsify your position?
      - hodwik2 10y ago
        A few things on torsio dystonia. One, Torsion Dystonia could just as easily be effecting something else which effects IQ. Two, the studies on Torsion Dystonia decided to only study people who were not showing symptoms. This means they were selecting around heredity, since those who show symptoms and those who don't were not divided on gene expression -- there is only one allele in play as far as we know. Three, the study was 14 persons. Removing a single person from the sample could have swung the data to say the opposite.
jmspring 10y ago
Ah ha! I forgot an earlier comment of mine where one's political views shouldn't impact conference attendance. In this case, when talking about a project, the specific nature, obfuscation, and seemingly random need to make things harder to understand than they should be, my opinion on the project is the opposite of my views on a speaking engagement.
sigusr1 10y ago
Is your assumption that IQ isn't heritable, or that genes don't vary with populations along racial lines, or what?
emmelaich 10y ago
Do you use transistors? Then stop, because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley
- trbvm2 10y ago
  I agreed with you at first but reading through Urbit's docs and the vox article linked in thread clarified the relationship between the system design and the author's political ideology. Many of the design choices did not make sense to me until I understood that the author basically leads a thought current around a return to aristocracy. With that, there does seem to be some reason to avoid the software simply because it may be designed to produce a particular political outcome. https://urbit.org/posts/address-space/ https://urbit.org/posts/address-space/ http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained
pythia__ 10y ago
Devil's advocate here. What nice things would we have if nobody gave money to people who believe that? Or, if that is what you meant, if the belief itself was extinct?

notthemessiah 10y ago

Just wait until you read the political views of those who are developing of which Urbit is an instantiation. It's a political philosophy designed to appeal to the Silicon Valley elite who want to imagine themselves as kings: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement Unqualified Reservations + Bitcoin = URBit

daxorid 10y ago
Even Vox is less biased than Rational Wiki on the topic. Much better overview: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11434098/alt-right-explained
JeremyBanks 10y ago
RationalWiki is biased trash that can't be trusted for anything.
- middleclick 10y ago
  Without actually reading what it says, you seem to be attacking the source rather than the content.
  - kofejnik 10y ago
    ironically, this is what the parent comment is doing - attacking the author and not the message
    - vertex-four 10y ago
      The software is heavily based on the author's political views - and allows the author to shape the network into whatever they want, being based on a system of "digital landlords" who have significant control over the users who work on their "land" - so it makes sense to look into said political views.
      - 10y ago