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Actually it was trying to fight back against Pando that taught me a great deal about trying to cut water with a sword, tbh. You can find me in that stream. Yo
by shava23 10y ago
Actually it was trying to fight back against Pando that taught me a great deal about trying to cut water with a sword, tbh. You can find me in that stream. You won't find me working on arguing particulars until I have a contract around rules, in general. Mobs don't have rules.
One sane person using logic can't win, ever.
When there is a venue with a contract, whether that can be negotiated outside a state system, or comes with it, we can talk about this like a community. Until such time, this is torches and pitchforks, and bad precedent for our future, which is what we are for, what we are about, and what the accusers claim they are trying to preserve.
We all want that. Even the accusers have to acknowledge that Jake has contributed significant independent work to that. So in respect for not destroying the overall reputation of hacktivism in the outside world -- where we have accomplished things like:
Snowden
convincing people that Comey is full of shit
supporting people in Congress in the US like Leahy and Wyden
Shutting down Free Harbor for it's eventual renegotiation
Various leaks and their support
many many direct actions
many many civil disobediences
many many cons and sharing information
much public education through mainstream and less mainstream media
and all the things that people count that I'm not enumerating because everyone has other goggles on their tin hats, this is just the first few slides on mine because I'm old and straight right?
but this stuff is morphing the world, not just our culture, and this reaches the US and EU and all over, out into tech press and MSM and everywhere else.
It is not about a bunch of play parties and cliques and hacker cons and thons and house parties and who knows who and whatnot and people being aspie and sensitive and whatever and whispering campaigns and whatever and consent culture and rape culture and all these things.
It's about that, and it's about a bunch of smiling gray faces who love to see us fight and destroy ourselves over this shit, as non-authoritarian cultures always do, like ulcers eating our own flesh. Because no matter what Jake did and didn't do, this mechanism is vigilante and abusive. It can not stand.
It is designed to prolong the chaos and damage. What is the end you have in sight? Where does the recursion end? When someone takes a hit out on him on some skanky dark net site?
This is what Hoover did to MLK in the 60s. And MLK fucked up; he was human. He was not faithful to his wife. He screamed and swore at this planning group in the SCLC.
Gandhi was a freaking monster in a lot of ways. He beat his wife. He was probably exactly a sociopath, within modern diagnostic bounds. Mahatma. Later, he sent troops to support Britain in WWII. he was not a pacifist in any absolute sense. He was HUMAN.
Mandela was in jail for years. Why? Because the Boers would not listen to the ANC when they were nonviolent -- the Boers felt they didn't have to. So Mandela took a deep sad breath, and they bombed a train which had civilians including families with women and children and civilian men, and the Boers howled for his blood! And Mandela came forward and said, "Put me in jail and don't look for the others, and I will come peacefully, and the ANC will return to nonviolence -- but understand, this is in our blood, we are Zulu, still." And the Boer listened. And this is why they always called him a murderer, Mandela. This man of peace.
This stuff is not easy. There are no saints. If you wait for saints to take up social change, you will live in hell forever.
So stop it. You are creating a world where no one will ever dare to move out of their front door and take up a life of activism, because they can not know if Jake is a sociopath, or a person who is being framed.
And unless we create some way to clarify that, you people are playing right into the hands of history that no one will come into this path. It's hard enough. It is FUCKING HARD ENOUGH to get people to take up peace and no money and justice and risk.
And you add our own FUD, on top of the FUD that gets rained down on us.
Find me a court, a contract, an actual way to resolve this, or use the state.
Fuck this noise.
- DethVeggie 10y agoDid you just compare Jake Appelbaum to Mandela, Gandhi, and MLK!? You are a crazy person.
- PavlovsCat 10y agoRight, and with that you think you addressed the post, in substance, in your mind, correct?