5 ms·

That's because a lot of us don't want to let anyone know exactly when we'll take up arms, especially the more they have to lose and the more covert they might w

by hga 10y ago

That's because a lot of us don't want to let anyone know exactly when we'll take up arms, especially the more they have to lose and the more covert they might want to be about it. Me, I have a number of declared lines in the sand, the first and most obvious is required registration of all firearms. Although the kinds of enemy of the state I'd become is not so obvious, e.g. I won't start wacking government officials. On the other hand, other people [censored by dang, but please don't open that door].

Frondo 10y ago
Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Frankly speaking, I already don't trust the judgment of anyone who talks so casually about revolution as you've done here ("I have a number of declared lines in the sand"?????). I have far more confidence in the current system than anything that would emerge when the internet tough guys get together to try and take it down. I have zero confidence that rational, reasonable people (and "I have a number of declared lines in the sand" and other such statements is not rational nor reasonable) would be included in the new politics following that revolution, and that would make me worried for how my friends, family, loved ones would be treated on the other side of such a revolution.
- hga 10y ago
  Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide that for others. "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" (misattributed to Trotsky). and "I have a number of declared lines in the sand" and other such statements is not rational nor reasonable And we should care about your opinion because...? that would make me worried for how my friends, family, loved ones would be treated on the other side of such a revolution. Then, if you're on the Left/progressive, you should stop pushing the other half of the country so hard. The other half just wants to be left alone, but that's obviously not happening.
  - Frondo 10y ago
    Wow! You really want to go to war on your fellow Americans! So much for democracy, eh? Screw voting, let's kill those lefties, is what you're saying. "if you're on the Left/progressive, you should stop pushing the other half of the country so hard." So, because a bunch of folks on twitter talk about rape culture or because gay people can now marry their partners...line in the sand kind of thing? I mean, you won't disclose the things that make you want to use your guns to overthrow the government we all share, but "progressive" is part of it. I'm so curious which leftie policy it is that makes you want to start killing (literally, in your own words, Mister "War is interested in you"!), but maybe asking questions is something else that will literally drive you to attempt to overthrow our government. Who knows? Man, if that isn't scary, I don't know what is.
    - hga 10y ago
      No, Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen (TWANLOC) have been at war with my side for many decades, and things might be coming to a head. But I think the fact that my side is realizing we really are in a war, that we've been mostly losing outside of gun control (where our betters have been catastrophically losing outside of a few benighted states), and are starting to respond like in supporting Trump ... well, surely you've noticed where the violence is coming from against people who are merely engaging in core democratic political activities like attending a rally: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/videos-and-photos-of-fascist-violence-in-san-jose.php http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/videos-and-pho... What do you suggest we do in the face of a violent Left? As for the lines in the sand, the only one I've declared here, since it's a pretty low floor, is mandatory gun registration nationwide, since we know our history and what that portends. Beyond that, you're imputing stuff about me that's pure fantasy. But look at for example that ACLU leader who resigned after her daughters came face to face with the consequences of World War T. And, as I'm saying, leave us the [expletive deleted] alone, to use one of your examples, don't make us bake your gay wedding cakes, and we won't have to go down these ugly paths. But the Left is congenitally unable to do that, since among other things it believes in the perfectibility of man, vs. e.g. the doctrine of Original Sin, which as a favorite history professor noted to much laughter, "is an empirical observation". So, when we don't conform to your ideas of perfection, out comes the guillotine in the first modern incarnation of the Left, and, again, we who read our history know all that, and aren't going to passively be carted (tumbrelled) to them. Yeah, you should find it scary if you haven't realized that you're in the middle of the war and, let me assume, not on the side that's now starting to get serious about fighting back. Democratically for the moment, but how long that's allowed isn't looking to be up to us, is it?
- int_19h 10y ago
  It's not unreasonable to have some lines in the sand, based on one's knowledge of history. For example, I could confidently say that genocide would be a line at which I would definitely consider armed resistance to a government that would perpetrate such a thing a moral imperative, even if I wasn't a target. And it's not unreasonable for people to ponder such things when they look at history, see the parallels to today, and realize that they _could_ be targets. For example, I'd imagine that there are quite a few Muslims in US pondering these very questions right now. It's the specific lines that some people state ("registration of all firearms", seriously?) that expose questionable judgment on their part. Or, alternatively, the lines can be reasonable, but their perception of reality is so skewed that they treat absolutely mundane things as crossing those lines in their mind. All the conspiracy theories around Jade Helm were a good example of that.
  - hga 10y ago
    How are you going to engage in armed resistance in case of genocide if you've allowed yourself to get disarmed beforehand? You evidently don't know the pattern of registration being followed by disarmament followed sometimes by genocide, with the PRC being the major exception to this pattern (the CCP instead used rifle taxes imposed on the rich to dry up the supply of those not in their hands). Even in the US mandatory registration has already led to confiscations in California and New York. And more of that will likely happen if enough of the coming "Gunpocalypse" gets enacted in California, although that might await a new governor, Jerry Brown is by no means all bad on this issue. So you're just as welcome to question my judgement as I your knowledge of history, but neither is very productive when it comes to thinking about what various people will do if pushed too far.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      Gun registration and/or licensing does not inevitably lead to confiscation of all guns. It may lead to confiscation of some of them (as with semi-autos in Australia), but just looking at various countries which have some form of mandatory gun registration - which is most of them outside of US - they have extreme variability in other gun control measures; from legal ownership of "assault weapons" & normal-capacity magazines and concealed carry in Czech Republic, to near-blanket bans in some Asian countries.

by hga 10y ago

Frondo 10y ago

Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Frankly speaking, I already don't trust the judgment of anyone who talks so casually about revolution as you've done here ("I have a number of declared lines in the sand"?????). I have far more confidence in the current system than anything that would emerge when the internet tough guys get together to try and take it down. I have zero confidence that rational, reasonable people (and "I have a number of declared lines in the sand" and other such statements is not rational nor reasonable) would be included in the new politics following that revolution, and that would make me worried for how my friends, family, loved ones would be treated on the other side of such a revolution.

hga 10y ago
Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide that for others. "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you" (misattributed to Trotsky). and "I have a number of declared lines in the sand" and other such statements is not rational nor reasonable And we should care about your opinion because...? that would make me worried for how my friends, family, loved ones would be treated on the other side of such a revolution. Then, if you're on the Left/progressive, you should stop pushing the other half of the country so hard. The other half just wants to be left alone, but that's obviously not happening.
- Frondo 10y ago
  Wow! You really want to go to war on your fellow Americans! So much for democracy, eh? Screw voting, let's kill those lefties, is what you're saying. "if you're on the Left/progressive, you should stop pushing the other half of the country so hard." So, because a bunch of folks on twitter talk about rape culture or because gay people can now marry their partners...line in the sand kind of thing? I mean, you won't disclose the things that make you want to use your guns to overthrow the government we all share, but "progressive" is part of it. I'm so curious which leftie policy it is that makes you want to start killing (literally, in your own words, Mister "War is interested in you"!), but maybe asking questions is something else that will literally drive you to attempt to overthrow our government. Who knows? Man, if that isn't scary, I don't know what is.
  - hga 10y ago
    No, Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen (TWANLOC) have been at war with my side for many decades, and things might be coming to a head. But I think the fact that my side is realizing we really are in a war, that we've been mostly losing outside of gun control (where our betters have been catastrophically losing outside of a few benighted states), and are starting to respond like in supporting Trump ... well, surely you've noticed where the violence is coming from against people who are merely engaging in core democratic political activities like attending a rally: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/videos-and-photos-of-fascist-violence-in-san-jose.php http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/videos-and-pho... What do you suggest we do in the face of a violent Left? As for the lines in the sand, the only one I've declared here, since it's a pretty low floor, is mandatory gun registration nationwide, since we know our history and what that portends. Beyond that, you're imputing stuff about me that's pure fantasy. But look at for example that ACLU leader who resigned after her daughters came face to face with the consequences of World War T. And, as I'm saying, leave us the [expletive deleted] alone, to use one of your examples, don't make us bake your gay wedding cakes, and we won't have to go down these ugly paths. But the Left is congenitally unable to do that, since among other things it believes in the perfectibility of man, vs. e.g. the doctrine of Original Sin, which as a favorite history professor noted to much laughter, "is an empirical observation". So, when we don't conform to your ideas of perfection, out comes the guillotine in the first modern incarnation of the Left, and, again, we who read our history know all that, and aren't going to passively be carted (tumbrelled) to them. Yeah, you should find it scary if you haven't realized that you're in the middle of the war and, let me assume, not on the side that's now starting to get serious about fighting back. Democratically for the moment, but how long that's allowed isn't looking to be up to us, is it?
int_19h 10y ago
It's not unreasonable to have some lines in the sand, based on one's knowledge of history. For example, I could confidently say that genocide would be a line at which I would definitely consider armed resistance to a government that would perpetrate such a thing a moral imperative, even if I wasn't a target. And it's not unreasonable for people to ponder such things when they look at history, see the parallels to today, and realize that they _could_ be targets. For example, I'd imagine that there are quite a few Muslims in US pondering these very questions right now. It's the specific lines that some people state ("registration of all firearms", seriously?) that expose questionable judgment on their part. Or, alternatively, the lines can be reasonable, but their perception of reality is so skewed that they treat absolutely mundane things as crossing those lines in their mind. All the conspiracy theories around Jade Helm were a good example of that.
- hga 10y ago
  How are you going to engage in armed resistance in case of genocide if you've allowed yourself to get disarmed beforehand? You evidently don't know the pattern of registration being followed by disarmament followed sometimes by genocide, with the PRC being the major exception to this pattern (the CCP instead used rifle taxes imposed on the rich to dry up the supply of those not in their hands). Even in the US mandatory registration has already led to confiscations in California and New York. And more of that will likely happen if enough of the coming "Gunpocalypse" gets enacted in California, although that might await a new governor, Jerry Brown is by no means all bad on this issue. So you're just as welcome to question my judgement as I your knowledge of history, but neither is very productive when it comes to thinking about what various people will do if pushed too far.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    Gun registration and/or licensing does not inevitably lead to confiscation of all guns. It may lead to confiscation of some of them (as with semi-autos in Australia), but just looking at various countries which have some form of mandatory gun registration - which is most of them outside of US - they have extreme variability in other gun control measures; from legal ownership of "assault weapons" & normal-capacity magazines and concealed carry in Czech Republic, to near-blanket bans in some Asian countries.