3 ms·

I may be wrong, but aren't you replying his quotes using a logic of a non poor human being? That's what I understood when reading your replies. The parent comme

I may be wrong, but aren't you replying his quotes using a logic of a non poor human being? That's what I understood when reading your replies. The parent comment is meant to share the 'biases' that poor people have, their mindset, such as "Save less: because you can only save if you have money.".

mac01021 10y ago
I am. But I interpreted his comment differently from the way you did. The article's thesis, with which I partially I agree, is that poverty is persisted, at least in part, by a poverty-induced inability to consider one's long-term welfare. jimrandomh's comment seems (to me) to be saying that the poor are not making bad decisions, but instead behaving in an objectively logical/near-optimal way given how little money they have. See the beginning of his comment: > This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in.
- peterwwillis 10y ago
  Long-term anything is not something you think about when you are poor. Ask any poor person. What is a "bad decision" ? It's a decision that ends poorly. But poor people are not intentionally deciding to make bad decisions. No poor person goes "Oh boy, I hope I fuck up today!" They are making risky or ill-advised decisions, which then don't pan out. They may have been aware of the consequences, or even willfully ignorant of them. But there was still a cause and effect which started with a basic need. For most of those decisions, they are acted upon by considering the most immediate solution to the need. Long-term goals are inherently prioritized lower than short-term goals. People with less money have less resources to achieve long-term goals. General welfare is often a secondary priority to the most basic needs of paying bills and feeding and sheltering oneself or one's family. But having a drink, doing drugs, the high of gambling, getting laid, and more are all much higher in priority than even those other basic needs, because they can be achieved the quickest and easiest and provide an immediate positive emotional gain, something sorely lacking for most poor people. So in terms of decision making, first you'll buy booze, then you'll debate between buying food for your family or paying the electric bill, then you'll think about finding a job. But to get the booze or pay the bill you might have to steal a radio. If there are no other apparent options, these are simply the only choices.
  - mac01021 10y ago
    Yup. I think both the article and I mostly agree with this.

mac01021 10y ago

I am. But I interpreted his comment differently from the way you did. The article's thesis, with which I partially I agree, is that poverty is persisted, at least in part, by a poverty-induced inability to consider one's long-term welfare. jimrandomh's comment seems (to me) to be saying that the poor are not making bad decisions, but instead behaving in an objectively logical/near-optimal way given how little money they have. See the beginning of his comment: > This article tries to shift perception from "poor people make bad decisions because they're intrinsically dumb" to "poor people make bad decisions because poverty makes them dumb." But this is also wrong; the decisions poor people make are, for the most part, sensible decisions given the circumstances they're in.

peterwwillis 10y ago
Long-term anything is not something you think about when you are poor. Ask any poor person. What is a "bad decision" ? It's a decision that ends poorly. But poor people are not intentionally deciding to make bad decisions. No poor person goes "Oh boy, I hope I fuck up today!" They are making risky or ill-advised decisions, which then don't pan out. They may have been aware of the consequences, or even willfully ignorant of them. But there was still a cause and effect which started with a basic need. For most of those decisions, they are acted upon by considering the most immediate solution to the need. Long-term goals are inherently prioritized lower than short-term goals. People with less money have less resources to achieve long-term goals. General welfare is often a secondary priority to the most basic needs of paying bills and feeding and sheltering oneself or one's family. But having a drink, doing drugs, the high of gambling, getting laid, and more are all much higher in priority than even those other basic needs, because they can be achieved the quickest and easiest and provide an immediate positive emotional gain, something sorely lacking for most poor people. So in terms of decision making, first you'll buy booze, then you'll debate between buying food for your family or paying the electric bill, then you'll think about finding a job. But to get the booze or pay the bill you might have to steal a radio. If there are no other apparent options, these are simply the only choices.
- mac01021 10y ago
  Yup. I think both the article and I mostly agree with this.