8 ms·

You can make a knife from a sharpened spoon, but you can do a lot more damage, more reliably, to more people, with a real sword. For now (although not forever)

You can make a knife from a sharpened spoon, but you can do a lot more damage, more reliably, to more people, with a real sword. For now (although not forever) you're not going to 3D print an AR-15 Lower.

djloche 10y ago
It is easier and more economical to mill with a cnc. It is probably far cheaper even to just walk to the gun store and buy a rifle than it is to 3D print something similar.
- celticninja 10y ago
  Not everywhere has gun stores.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  A CNC is something that is pitifully easy for a regulatory agency to track, as far as large numbers of purchases go. See: that fellow who was milling AR-15 lowers and just got busted. We're talking about the difference between machining metal, and downloading and printing a schematic. I hope that you do see the difference.
  - 0xffff2 10y ago
    Easier than 3D printers? how so?
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      I'm saying the exact opposite.
  - abakker 10y ago
    It is easier to track distributing a sold product. It is very difficult to track what a person makes in the comfort of their home. I dont think the federal government keeps a registry for the purchase of milling machines.
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      If everyone who wants to own (to keep using this one example) an AR-15 had to buy a CNC, that would be quite the commitment. If the current model of people buying many milling machines and selling their services is the only viable way to avoid that, then you've already seen the feds start to take notice. After all, if you can get word of mouth around enough to make money, you're making enough noise to be heard. 3D printing is presumably going to become ubiquitous, and require no skill or experience to operate and maintain.
      - int_19h 10y ago
        But that's the thing - with the present level of technology, you can have a device that is, essentially, pre-programmed CNC to make AR lowers (which is what Ghost Gunner is, for example) for under $300. To make a fully functional firearm from there, you also need a complete upper - can be had for another $400 or so these days; and a complete lower part kit with buffer tube and stock - can be had for less than $100. For a total of $800, some assembly required (or you can pay another $50 and have pretty much any gunsmith put it together for you). So basically, a person can take GG and produce an unregistered, untraceable, no-background-check-required AR with it for $800-900. For comparison, the Bushmaster AR that was used in Sandy Hook shooting costs ~$700.
        hga 10y ago
        The Ghost Gunner drills/machines the right holes in an 80% receiver, it doesn't start with a 0% receiver: http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-receiver http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-r... But it's not very difficult to start at that level: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-cartel-gunsmiths http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-cartel-gunsmiths $25K for a pro CNC machine isn't much in the scheme of things.
        Aelinsaar 10y ago
        For a cartel? It's nothing. For most people who want a particular gun, and don't intend to monetize the purchase, never mind the time taken to learn how to work and maintain it? That's a hell of a thing to be honest.
beachstartup 10y ago
> you're not going to 3D print an AR-15 Lower this has already been done plenty of times, and i have a sneaking suspicion is far more widespread than anyone is letting on. meanwhile, you can just buy a hundred 80% lowers off the internet for probably less than a grand, and keep them around just in case. plenty of "normal" people stockpile this stuff. they just aren't telling anyone about it.
angersock 10y ago
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/579913_3D_printed_lower___yes__it_works_.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/579913_3D_printed_lower__... Literally 10 seconds on Google.
fixxer 10y ago
You can start with an 80% lower and a $20 router from Harbor Freight and get something pretty good depending on how you set up a jig. It ain't rocket science.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  No it isn't, but look at the instructions on a pack of ketchup some time and bask in the glory of the LCD. "Set up a jig" is alien babble to a huge number of people, for whom, "Press print" would not be.
  - sgnelson 10y ago
    That's what the internet is for.
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      Heh... sure. That, and blowing yourself up because the Navy Seal teaching you to make C4 was actually a 14 year old. The internet is a very YMMV experience, often that variance has to do with what you put into it. If the only people who can overcome a law are those smart and resourceful enough to learn how to mill their own guns, yet still criminally inclined, I'd say you've minimized your problem nicely.
Mizza 10y ago
Not only can you already print a lower, you can print a bolt-together lower than can be printed on a commercial Makerbot or similar. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42zpwpmGOvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42zpwpmGOvc and another of it being test-fired: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXz9kb83yc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXz9kb83yc

djloche 10y ago

It is easier and more economical to mill with a cnc. It is probably far cheaper even to just walk to the gun store and buy a rifle than it is to 3D print something similar.

celticninja 10y ago
Not everywhere has gun stores.
Aelinsaar 10y ago
A CNC is something that is pitifully easy for a regulatory agency to track, as far as large numbers of purchases go. See: that fellow who was milling AR-15 lowers and just got busted. We're talking about the difference between machining metal, and downloading and printing a schematic. I hope that you do see the difference.
- 0xffff2 10y ago
  Easier than 3D printers? how so?
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    I'm saying the exact opposite.
- abakker 10y ago
  It is easier to track distributing a sold product. It is very difficult to track what a person makes in the comfort of their home. I dont think the federal government keeps a registry for the purchase of milling machines.
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    If everyone who wants to own (to keep using this one example) an AR-15 had to buy a CNC, that would be quite the commitment. If the current model of people buying many milling machines and selling their services is the only viable way to avoid that, then you've already seen the feds start to take notice. After all, if you can get word of mouth around enough to make money, you're making enough noise to be heard. 3D printing is presumably going to become ubiquitous, and require no skill or experience to operate and maintain.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      But that's the thing - with the present level of technology, you can have a device that is, essentially, pre-programmed CNC to make AR lowers (which is what Ghost Gunner is, for example) for under $300. To make a fully functional firearm from there, you also need a complete upper - can be had for another $400 or so these days; and a complete lower part kit with buffer tube and stock - can be had for less than $100. For a total of $800, some assembly required (or you can pay another $50 and have pretty much any gunsmith put it together for you). So basically, a person can take GG and produce an unregistered, untraceable, no-background-check-required AR with it for $800-900. For comparison, the Bushmaster AR that was used in Sandy Hook shooting costs ~$700.
      - hga 10y ago
        The Ghost Gunner drills/machines the right holes in an 80% receiver, it doesn't start with a 0% receiver: http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-receiver http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-r... But it's not very difficult to start at that level: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-cartel-gunsmiths http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-cartel-gunsmiths $25K for a pro CNC machine isn't much in the scheme of things.
        Aelinsaar 10y ago
        For a cartel? It's nothing. For most people who want a particular gun, and don't intend to monetize the purchase, never mind the time taken to learn how to work and maintain it? That's a hell of a thing to be honest.

beachstartup 10y ago

> you're not going to 3D print an AR-15 Lower this has already been done plenty of times, and i have a sneaking suspicion is far more widespread than anyone is letting on. meanwhile, you can just buy a hundred 80% lowers off the internet for probably less than a grand, and keep them around just in case. plenty of "normal" people stockpile this stuff. they just aren't telling anyone about it.

angersock 10y ago

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/579913_3D_printed_lower___yes__it_works_.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/579913_3D_printed_lower__... Literally 10 seconds on Google.

fixxer 10y ago

You can start with an 80% lower and a $20 router from Harbor Freight and get something pretty good depending on how you set up a jig. It ain't rocket science.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
No it isn't, but look at the instructions on a pack of ketchup some time and bask in the glory of the LCD. "Set up a jig" is alien babble to a huge number of people, for whom, "Press print" would not be.
- sgnelson 10y ago
  That's what the internet is for.
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    Heh... sure. That, and blowing yourself up because the Navy Seal teaching you to make C4 was actually a 14 year old. The internet is a very YMMV experience, often that variance has to do with what you put into it. If the only people who can overcome a law are those smart and resourceful enough to learn how to mill their own guns, yet still criminally inclined, I'd say you've minimized your problem nicely.

Mizza 10y ago

Not only can you already print a lower, you can print a bolt-together lower than can be printed on a commercial Makerbot or similar. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42zpwpmGOvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42zpwpmGOvc and another of it being test-fired: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXz9kb83yc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXz9kb83yc