7 ms·

That's assuming Zavodnik sent the requests via certified, registered mail. Zavodnik could have easily scribbled the address in unreadable gibberish and slapped

That's assuming Zavodnik sent the requests via certified, registered mail. Zavodnik could have easily scribbled the address in unreadable gibberish and slapped a simple 1st class stamp on, in which case they would never have actually been delivered. Costello claims he never received anything.

giarc 10y ago
Wouldn't the onus be on Zavodnik to prove he sent the documents by registered mail?
- rdtsc 10y ago
  That is if he wanted those delivered. I think the idea was he didn't because he wanted to get the default judgement.
  - jjnoakes 10y ago
    Whether he wanted them delivered or not, the legal system should require proof on behalf of the server that the person being served was served correctly. Basic first class mail should never suffice.
    - rdtsc 10y ago
      It should but it doesn't obviously. Perhaps a video recording of delivery and asking for a signature should be required. Obviously some defendants could just start running away and refuse to sign, thus delaying the lawsuit forever. But also throwing the packet of paper in a mail with a stamp or dropping it on the front porch while yelling "you've been served" is also not quite cutting it. Something in the middle is needed.
      - jjnoakes 10y ago
        > It should but it doesn't obviously. I think you've lost track of the conversation in this thread.
        rdtsc 10y ago
        How so?
      - cortesoft 10y ago
        You do realize that rules around this already exist, right? For example, in california: https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/california https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal...
        dthrowit 10y ago
        and here in california, my anecdote entails me learning via first class mail that there's about to be a judgement entered against me because I failed to respond to papers I never received, because the plaintiff had apparently served them to an old address of mine (probably intentionally by this shady lawyer filing the small claims suit against me).
        cortesoft 10y ago
        Oh, I know. I made another comment in this thread about all the ways you could miss being served, even if the server follows all the laws.
        wl 10y ago
        Parties cannot be represented by attorneys in small claims court in California[1]. Unless the person suing you was the "shady lawyer" you're talking about, your anecdote doesn't make any sense. [1] California Code of Civil Procedure §116.530 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&group=00001-01000&file=116.510-116.570 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&gr...
        dthrowit 10y ago
        Yes, the person suing me in small claims court was the shady lawyer himself.
        rdtsc 10y ago
        > You do realize that rules around this already exist, right? For example, in california: https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal.. https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal.... Except the article talks about Indiana. It helps to read the article. You, did read the article, ... right?
  - giarc 10y ago
    Oh of course, however you think logically you would need to prove delivery of documents. The default judgement is when the defendant hasn't responded in 30 days. Therefore you would assume you would have to prove the defendant had something to respond to.
- jkyle 10y ago
  Since the opposite would be entirely impossible to prove (that Costello did not receive any mail), it certainly would be on Zavodnik to prove they were sent and received. This is what the whole "You've been served" process is about.
spacemanmatt 10y ago
Usually one needs the delivery receipt associated with a registered letter to prove notification. At least, this was the requirement of notification before I could re-litigate my divorce.
- tssva 10y ago
  In my jurisdiction the family court, which handles divorce, requires notification via sheriff. The general district court requires notification via posting on the front door of the last known address and delivery via standard 1st class mail. This can be and is easily abused by cherry picking the last known address used. The plaintiff just needs sign an affidavit that it was the last known address they were aware of. You could challenge that they didn't make a reasonable effort to get a good last known address, but the burden of proof is on you and you won't win. Also if you rented a property and have vacated it, for example if your lease has ended, your landlord can post on the front door and mail notice to the vacated property and this is considered sufficient notice.

giarc 10y ago

Wouldn't the onus be on Zavodnik to prove he sent the documents by registered mail?

rdtsc 10y ago
That is if he wanted those delivered. I think the idea was he didn't because he wanted to get the default judgement.
- jjnoakes 10y ago
  Whether he wanted them delivered or not, the legal system should require proof on behalf of the server that the person being served was served correctly. Basic first class mail should never suffice.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    It should but it doesn't obviously. Perhaps a video recording of delivery and asking for a signature should be required. Obviously some defendants could just start running away and refuse to sign, thus delaying the lawsuit forever. But also throwing the packet of paper in a mail with a stamp or dropping it on the front porch while yelling "you've been served" is also not quite cutting it. Something in the middle is needed.
    - jjnoakes 10y ago
      > It should but it doesn't obviously. I think you've lost track of the conversation in this thread.
      - rdtsc 10y ago
        How so?
    - cortesoft 10y ago
      You do realize that rules around this already exist, right? For example, in california: https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/california https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal...
      - dthrowit 10y ago
        and here in california, my anecdote entails me learning via first class mail that there's about to be a judgement entered against me because I failed to respond to papers I never received, because the plaintiff had apparently served them to an old address of mine (probably intentionally by this shady lawyer filing the small claims suit against me).
        cortesoft 10y ago
        Oh, I know. I made another comment in this thread about all the ways you could miss being served, even if the server follows all the laws.
        wl 10y ago
        Parties cannot be represented by attorneys in small claims court in California[1]. Unless the person suing you was the "shady lawyer" you're talking about, your anecdote doesn't make any sense. [1] California Code of Civil Procedure §116.530 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&group=00001-01000&file=116.510-116.570 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&gr...
        dthrowit 10y ago
        Yes, the person suing me in small claims court was the shady lawyer himself.
      - rdtsc 10y ago
        > You do realize that rules around this already exist, right? For example, in california: https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal.. https://www.serve-now.com/resources/process-serving-laws/cal.... Except the article talks about Indiana. It helps to read the article. You, did read the article, ... right?
- giarc 10y ago
  Oh of course, however you think logically you would need to prove delivery of documents. The default judgement is when the defendant hasn't responded in 30 days. Therefore you would assume you would have to prove the defendant had something to respond to.
jkyle 10y ago
Since the opposite would be entirely impossible to prove (that Costello did not receive any mail), it certainly would be on Zavodnik to prove they were sent and received. This is what the whole "You've been served" process is about.

spacemanmatt 10y ago

Usually one needs the delivery receipt associated with a registered letter to prove notification. At least, this was the requirement of notification before I could re-litigate my divorce.

tssva 10y ago
In my jurisdiction the family court, which handles divorce, requires notification via sheriff. The general district court requires notification via posting on the front door of the last known address and delivery via standard 1st class mail. This can be and is easily abused by cherry picking the last known address used. The plaintiff just needs sign an affidavit that it was the last known address they were aware of. You could challenge that they didn't make a reasonable effort to get a good last known address, but the burden of proof is on you and you won't win. Also if you rented a property and have vacated it, for example if your lease has ended, your landlord can post on the front door and mail notice to the vacated property and this is considered sufficient notice.