5 ms·

It is important to note that with the current tax rates as high as they are (on the caugh rich, $150,000+), we can't feasibly move to a system like France's wou

by Judson 17y ago

It is important to note that with the current tax rates as high as they are (on the caugh rich, $150,000+), we can't feasibly move to a system like France's would (all things constant) raise tax rates even more, without reducing spending[1]. The key point the author suggests, and which I agree, is the breaking down of market barriers such as: - Why do I need a $200+ doctors visit to a "specialist" to get a prescription anti-fungal creme? (Answer: FDA) - Why does a visit to a "doc-in-a-box" cost me $25 (copay) and my insurance company $75+ when I was only there for 15 minutes (after a 30min wait)? (Answer: AMA regulates supply of doctors. We may have needed that before technology basically automated routine doctors visits, but we don't need such stringent accreditation for a bad cold diagnosis (flu scare).) [1] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html

orblivion 17y ago
Does France not have their equivalent of the FDA and AMA?
- marshallp 17y ago
  The problem is American doctors are smug elitist's who believe they're worth half a million dollars a year and american society believes they're worth it too (possibly through watching too much medical dramas on television). Every other country in the world treats theur doctor's as humanitarians who deserve an above average but honest wage.
  - Judson 17y ago
    I guess the real question is, do you have to go to school for 10 years to be a generic MD who can read the output of a machine and tell me my white blood cell count is elevated so I probably have an infection. Here is an antibiotic. btw, I'm not saying that years of school aren't worth it for docs that are more specialized (aka surgery)
    - orblivion 17y ago
      "I guess the real question is, do you have to go to school for 10 years to be a generic MD who can read the output of a machine and tell me my white blood cell count is elevated so I probably have an infection. Here is an antibiotic." No, and this is what pisses me off about things like the FDA. They set the standard for risk, instead of letting the market find the appropriate level. And they've set it pretty high, and now basic shit is needlessly expensive and complicated. Cutting corners (ie, letting nurses handle it) is just fine. It might lead to more accidents, but it'll free up doctors to help a lot more people and more than make up for it.
  - orblivion 17y ago
    They are smug, there is no reason we need to jump through hoops for routine things. But I don't think that's the problem. I think that if the market were truly free, consumer's opinion of the doctors' eliteness status would prevail.
  - rick888 17y ago
    "The problem is American doctors are smug elitist's who believe they're worth half a million dollars a year and american society believes they're worth it too (possibly through watching too much medical dramas on television). Every other country in the world treats theur doctor's as humanitarians who deserve an above average but honest wage." After at least 10 years of schooling (plus the debt), grueling work, and 12+ hour work days for many years, doctor's deserve the high wage. When you first start out as a doctor, you don't get that much. It only happens after specialization. Other countries also pay developers $5/hour and you forget to mention that the cost of living in many "other countries" is significantly lower.
    - marshallp 17y ago
      Medical training is equally tough in most/all other countries. Cost of living is higher in most western european countries and japan than in the US, but their doctors are paid less than US doctors.
      - rick888 17y ago
        "Cost of living is higher in most western european countries and japan than in the US, but their doctors are paid less than US doctors." That's because most western European countries have socialized health care. The fact that doctors aren't paid well is a product of the system.
- Judson 17y ago
  In the article I linked to (sorry it wasn't there when you replied), it showed in that Health Care spending as a proportion to GDP France is not that far ahead of the US (16% Vs. 11%). They have all of the problems we have, they have just tweaked their laws to allow for (according to the author of the original article) prescriptions without a doctors visit. France doesn't solve the cost problem, they just spend their tax dollars on healthcare instead of Defense, Social Security, and Medicare. Oh, and they have the MHRA - Which is equiv to FDA
  - DennisP 17y ago
    > they just spend their tax dollars on healthcare instead of...Medicare. Hmmm...something is odd here.
- yummyfajitas 17y ago
  Most foreign FDAs are less strict than the US FDA. In a variety of countries (Egypt, India, Iran, Turkey, France, to name a few), you can buy many non-narcotic drugs in the pharmacy. So if you have amoebiosis, want birth control, or have the same fungus as the author, you just ask a pharmacist for help. In the US, all require a doctor's permission.

by Judson 17y ago

orblivion 17y ago

Does France not have their equivalent of the FDA and AMA?

marshallp 17y ago
The problem is American doctors are smug elitist's who believe they're worth half a million dollars a year and american society believes they're worth it too (possibly through watching too much medical dramas on television). Every other country in the world treats theur doctor's as humanitarians who deserve an above average but honest wage.
- Judson 17y ago
  I guess the real question is, do you have to go to school for 10 years to be a generic MD who can read the output of a machine and tell me my white blood cell count is elevated so I probably have an infection. Here is an antibiotic. btw, I'm not saying that years of school aren't worth it for docs that are more specialized (aka surgery)
  - orblivion 17y ago
    "I guess the real question is, do you have to go to school for 10 years to be a generic MD who can read the output of a machine and tell me my white blood cell count is elevated so I probably have an infection. Here is an antibiotic." No, and this is what pisses me off about things like the FDA. They set the standard for risk, instead of letting the market find the appropriate level. And they've set it pretty high, and now basic shit is needlessly expensive and complicated. Cutting corners (ie, letting nurses handle it) is just fine. It might lead to more accidents, but it'll free up doctors to help a lot more people and more than make up for it.
- orblivion 17y ago
  They are smug, there is no reason we need to jump through hoops for routine things. But I don't think that's the problem. I think that if the market were truly free, consumer's opinion of the doctors' eliteness status would prevail.
- rick888 17y ago
  "The problem is American doctors are smug elitist's who believe they're worth half a million dollars a year and american society believes they're worth it too (possibly through watching too much medical dramas on television). Every other country in the world treats theur doctor's as humanitarians who deserve an above average but honest wage." After at least 10 years of schooling (plus the debt), grueling work, and 12+ hour work days for many years, doctor's deserve the high wage. When you first start out as a doctor, you don't get that much. It only happens after specialization. Other countries also pay developers $5/hour and you forget to mention that the cost of living in many "other countries" is significantly lower.
  - marshallp 17y ago
    Medical training is equally tough in most/all other countries. Cost of living is higher in most western european countries and japan than in the US, but their doctors are paid less than US doctors.
    - rick888 17y ago
      "Cost of living is higher in most western european countries and japan than in the US, but their doctors are paid less than US doctors." That's because most western European countries have socialized health care. The fact that doctors aren't paid well is a product of the system.
Judson 17y ago
In the article I linked to (sorry it wasn't there when you replied), it showed in that Health Care spending as a proportion to GDP France is not that far ahead of the US (16% Vs. 11%). They have all of the problems we have, they have just tweaked their laws to allow for (according to the author of the original article) prescriptions without a doctors visit. France doesn't solve the cost problem, they just spend their tax dollars on healthcare instead of Defense, Social Security, and Medicare. Oh, and they have the MHRA - Which is equiv to FDA
- DennisP 17y ago
  > they just spend their tax dollars on healthcare instead of...Medicare. Hmmm...something is odd here.
yummyfajitas 17y ago
Most foreign FDAs are less strict than the US FDA. In a variety of countries (Egypt, India, Iran, Turkey, France, to name a few), you can buy many non-narcotic drugs in the pharmacy. So if you have amoebiosis, want birth control, or have the same fungus as the author, you just ask a pharmacist for help. In the US, all require a doctor's permission.