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About a year ago, a traffic accident caused Waze to route me through a residential area. I actually respected the speed limit as I went through, and at one poin

About a year ago, a traffic accident caused Waze to route me through a residential area. I actually respected the speed limit as I went through, and at one point saw kids playing in the street just as I was making a turn, so I slowed further. That didn't stop some busybody dad from flagging me down. I opened my window and he told me I'd better slow down (I had) because there were kids playing. My response to him was that he oughtn't let his kids play in the street. He started ranting, so I pulled away, and he shouted after me "SLOW DOWN YOU ASSHOLE!!". When I got home, upset by this, I went back and looked at my logs. I also use an app called Torque that logs all the data from my car's OBDII port, and GPS data as well. So I was able to verify that at no point was I going more that 5mph below the posted limit, and from the point where those kids were visible, I was going far slower than that. My conclusion from just one datapoint is that people are irrational about what they allow their kids to do (play in the road) while expecting other people to accept and mitigate the potential risk; and also that people have little ability to estimate vehicle speed accurately.

street 10y ago
Why can't kids play on a street designed only for traffic to houses on that street? I played on the street all the time as a child. Of course, my streets weren't flooded with drivers trying to save a few minutes by driving through residential areas.
- CWuestefeld 10y ago
  I think you answered your own question: "a street designed only for traffic".
  - HarryHirsch 10y ago
    There's something wrong with a street designed only for traffic in a residential neighbourhood.
- Piskvorrr 10y ago
  Depends on the legislation - some places have "living streets", where 1. the speed limit is low, and more importantly, 2. the driver has to give way to "pedestrians and playing children". http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Spielstrasse.jpg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Spielstrasse.jpg Still - a pretty bad overreaction from the "Dad" :(
- holograham 10y ago
  The fallacy in your logic is that the streets were not designed for kids to play in. They are designed for cars to drive on. Furthermore, like was mentioned by previous posters and the article, there are further legal traffic laws that can be implemented to protect side streets from incurring unreasonable or unsafe traffic (e.g. no thru traffic, rush hour restrictions, lower speed limits, additional stop signs or even speed bumps, etc). By all means, local governments should be using these laws and regulations to ensure neighborhood streets are as safe as possible. However, even with minimal traffic, kids playing in a street will always be a risk. If the street does not have adequate safety measures AND enforcement then as a parent you should not allow your child to play in or near the street without accepting the risk.
  - akgerber 10y ago
    Most streets in older parts of the country were not designed for people to drive on, and plenty of children played on them. Motor vehicles simply killed enough children when they first became common that children were forced elsewhere. https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/fighting-traffic https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/fighting-traffic
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  If we wanted that to be a neighborhood playground, we wouldn't have made it out of cement and we wouldn't have allowed any cars, not even residents'.
gglitch 10y ago
This is a reasonable comment and perspective, and you're definitely to be lauded for driving cautiously. Also, the father you're describing sounds irrational and insulting. But as the father of a two-year old myself, I'm sitting here thinking (a) my child is just not yet completely under control, and no matter how vigilant I am, I cannot completely eliminate all risk (not to mention the complicated issue of where ideally I'd position myself and my kid, as he matures, on the spectrum of safety vs. independence); and (b) you may be the statistical anomaly here for driving so cautiously. I'm not defending the dad, who sounds like a jerk, and I'm also not faulting Waze for making a buck by optimizing traffic patterns. I'm just putting in a plug for all the parents who most definitely realize their kids shouldn't be "playing in the street," but who are frequently shocked by how much easier it is to lock down a server than a loud and complex little creature who can't take off his shoes but who can, unfortunately, run out into the street in the blink of an eye.
pja 10y ago
Speed limits are not targets, they’re just legal limits. The reasonable speed to be driving along a given road might be much slower than the posted limit.
- technofiend 10y ago
  In Houston they're more strongly worded suggestions. I have to remind myself to slow down outside of the city and not get frustrated with other people who naturally drive the limit.
- CWuestefeld 10y ago
  It looks like you're only responding to my initial statement "I actually respected the speed limit as I went through". If you read farther, you'll see something completely in accord with your statement: "I was able to verify that at no point was I going more that 5mph below the posted limit, and from the point where those kids were visible, I was going far slower than that."
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
oftenwrong 10y ago
Streets are not just paths for cars to pass-through on. They are a part of the places we live. They should be safe even for playing children. Cars can pass through cautiously, allowing children to move out of the way. It's not hard to share the space.
- danielweber 10y ago
  We played in the street all the time growing up. Dead-end street. Any kid calls out "car" and we know to get out of the road for a minute.
  - JoshTriplett 10y ago
    It's a lot more reasonable in a dead-end or cul-de-sac, where any car is either going to one of the houses there or got lost, and where no vehicle should be moving at more than walking speed.
    - jdbernard 10y ago
      The same logic applies to non-dead-ends if only people who live in the neighborhood use them. That's why people don't want "their" neighborhood streets used as cut-throughs.
      - idbehold 10y ago
        Then those people should move to dead-end streets. Because again, it isn't "their" street. It's the public's street.
        jdbernard 10y ago
        You are correct. It is not "their" street. However, it is not unreasonable for people to expect that neighborhood streets not be flooded with traffic beyond what they were designed to handle nor put to purposes for which they were not designed. It is a public street that was designed to service the neighborhood and the traffic traveling to the neighborhood. It is not a highway.
mcguire 10y ago
One of my neighbors is known for yelling at people driving fast down our road. His son was hit and killed while crossing the street a few years ago.
- CWuestefeld 10y ago
  I've been hit by cars twice while bicycling. The first time was my own fault, and resulted in a broken leg. The second time was of indeterminate fault, there being a question due to sun glare on a traffic light. Why is it that when it comes to driving safety, the first and paramount factor that people jump to is speed? To be sure, speed can make some accidents more likely, and probably worsen the results of many accidents. But I don't see that it's a more important factor than inattention, failure to respect traffic signs or lane discipline, failure to signal properly, poor training, poor automobile maintenance. Of these, inattention (viz cell phone usage, but not other contributors such as interacting with passengers) is the only other one I ever see addressed. Why doesn't society tell people "keep to the right lane" or "signal your turns"? I'm willing to bet that your neighbor never yells at motorists "stop arguing with the kids in the backseat".
  - lliamander 10y ago
    > Why doesn't society tell people "keep to the right lane" or "signal your turns"? It's funny, because I live in California, and I find myself wanting to yell these things a people all the time.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      "Keep Right Except to Pass" is a pretty common sign. And in at least some states you can be ticketed for improper lane use and failure to signal.
      - lliamander 10y ago
        Indeed. I hail from Oregon, where it is the law. Freeway driving, even when busy, is much more pleasant there.
mywittyname 10y ago
> "SLOW DOWN YOU ASSHOLE!!". I hate these people. They never have any idea how fast you're actually driving. In my experience, the person complaining is deflecting blame. The only times this has happened to me is the result of someone's dog running in front of my car because they couldn't be bothered to control it (or let their kids walk a 100lb dog next to a road). Speed on residential roads is definitely a problem, but yelling at the people who aren't speeding isn't going to solve the problem.
DrScump 10y ago
Perhaps the kids were playing in the street because that dad had earlier told them, "stay the hell off my lawn!"

street 10y ago

Why can't kids play on a street designed only for traffic to houses on that street? I played on the street all the time as a child. Of course, my streets weren't flooded with drivers trying to save a few minutes by driving through residential areas.

CWuestefeld 10y ago
I think you answered your own question: "a street designed only for traffic".
- HarryHirsch 10y ago
  There's something wrong with a street designed only for traffic in a residential neighbourhood.
Piskvorrr 10y ago
Depends on the legislation - some places have "living streets", where 1. the speed limit is low, and more importantly, 2. the driver has to give way to "pedestrians and playing children". http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Spielstrasse.jpg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Spielstrasse.jpg Still - a pretty bad overreaction from the "Dad" :(
holograham 10y ago
The fallacy in your logic is that the streets were not designed for kids to play in. They are designed for cars to drive on. Furthermore, like was mentioned by previous posters and the article, there are further legal traffic laws that can be implemented to protect side streets from incurring unreasonable or unsafe traffic (e.g. no thru traffic, rush hour restrictions, lower speed limits, additional stop signs or even speed bumps, etc). By all means, local governments should be using these laws and regulations to ensure neighborhood streets are as safe as possible. However, even with minimal traffic, kids playing in a street will always be a risk. If the street does not have adequate safety measures AND enforcement then as a parent you should not allow your child to play in or near the street without accepting the risk.
- akgerber 10y ago
  Most streets in older parts of the country were not designed for people to drive on, and plenty of children played on them. Motor vehicles simply killed enough children when they first became common that children were forced elsewhere. https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/fighting-traffic https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/fighting-traffic
prodigal_erik 10y ago
If we wanted that to be a neighborhood playground, we wouldn't have made it out of cement and we wouldn't have allowed any cars, not even residents'.

gglitch 10y ago

This is a reasonable comment and perspective, and you're definitely to be lauded for driving cautiously. Also, the father you're describing sounds irrational and insulting. But as the father of a two-year old myself, I'm sitting here thinking (a) my child is just not yet completely under control, and no matter how vigilant I am, I cannot completely eliminate all risk (not to mention the complicated issue of where ideally I'd position myself and my kid, as he matures, on the spectrum of safety vs. independence); and (b) you may be the statistical anomaly here for driving so cautiously. I'm not defending the dad, who sounds like a jerk, and I'm also not faulting Waze for making a buck by optimizing traffic patterns. I'm just putting in a plug for all the parents who most definitely realize their kids shouldn't be "playing in the street," but who are frequently shocked by how much easier it is to lock down a server than a loud and complex little creature who can't take off his shoes but who can, unfortunately, run out into the street in the blink of an eye.

pja 10y ago

Speed limits are not targets, they’re just legal limits. The reasonable speed to be driving along a given road might be much slower than the posted limit.

technofiend 10y ago
In Houston they're more strongly worded suggestions. I have to remind myself to slow down outside of the city and not get frustrated with other people who naturally drive the limit.
CWuestefeld 10y ago
It looks like you're only responding to my initial statement "I actually respected the speed limit as I went through". If you read farther, you'll see something completely in accord with your statement: "I was able to verify that at no point was I going more that 5mph below the posted limit, and from the point where those kids were visible, I was going far slower than that."

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

oftenwrong 10y ago

Streets are not just paths for cars to pass-through on. They are a part of the places we live. They should be safe even for playing children. Cars can pass through cautiously, allowing children to move out of the way. It's not hard to share the space.

danielweber 10y ago
We played in the street all the time growing up. Dead-end street. Any kid calls out "car" and we know to get out of the road for a minute.
- JoshTriplett 10y ago
  It's a lot more reasonable in a dead-end or cul-de-sac, where any car is either going to one of the houses there or got lost, and where no vehicle should be moving at more than walking speed.
  - jdbernard 10y ago
    The same logic applies to non-dead-ends if only people who live in the neighborhood use them. That's why people don't want "their" neighborhood streets used as cut-throughs.
    - idbehold 10y ago
      Then those people should move to dead-end streets. Because again, it isn't "their" street. It's the public's street.
      - jdbernard 10y ago
        You are correct. It is not "their" street. However, it is not unreasonable for people to expect that neighborhood streets not be flooded with traffic beyond what they were designed to handle nor put to purposes for which they were not designed. It is a public street that was designed to service the neighborhood and the traffic traveling to the neighborhood. It is not a highway.

mcguire 10y ago

One of my neighbors is known for yelling at people driving fast down our road. His son was hit and killed while crossing the street a few years ago.

CWuestefeld 10y ago
I've been hit by cars twice while bicycling. The first time was my own fault, and resulted in a broken leg. The second time was of indeterminate fault, there being a question due to sun glare on a traffic light. Why is it that when it comes to driving safety, the first and paramount factor that people jump to is speed? To be sure, speed can make some accidents more likely, and probably worsen the results of many accidents. But I don't see that it's a more important factor than inattention, failure to respect traffic signs or lane discipline, failure to signal properly, poor training, poor automobile maintenance. Of these, inattention (viz cell phone usage, but not other contributors such as interacting with passengers) is the only other one I ever see addressed. Why doesn't society tell people "keep to the right lane" or "signal your turns"? I'm willing to bet that your neighbor never yells at motorists "stop arguing with the kids in the backseat".
- lliamander 10y ago
  > Why doesn't society tell people "keep to the right lane" or "signal your turns"? It's funny, because I live in California, and I find myself wanting to yell these things a people all the time.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    "Keep Right Except to Pass" is a pretty common sign. And in at least some states you can be ticketed for improper lane use and failure to signal.
    - lliamander 10y ago
      Indeed. I hail from Oregon, where it is the law. Freeway driving, even when busy, is much more pleasant there.

mywittyname 10y ago

> "SLOW DOWN YOU ASSHOLE!!". I hate these people. They never have any idea how fast you're actually driving. In my experience, the person complaining is deflecting blame. The only times this has happened to me is the result of someone's dog running in front of my car because they couldn't be bothered to control it (or let their kids walk a 100lb dog next to a road). Speed on residential roads is definitely a problem, but yelling at the people who aren't speeding isn't going to solve the problem.

DrScump 10y ago

Perhaps the kids were playing in the street because that dad had earlier told them, "stay the hell off my lawn!"