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Grids don't help much. Take a look at Google Maps' traffic report of Los Angeles' perfect grid layout during rush hour: the entire grid is usually solid red, al

Grids don't help much. Take a look at Google Maps' traffic report of Los Angeles' perfect grid layout during rush hour: the entire grid is usually solid red, almost every day. Like most other plans for ameliorating heavy traffic, it is somewhat effective for a short time, but it soon just causes that many more cars to try to drive through the area.

JBReefer 10y ago
This is called "Induced Demand"
gjolund 10y ago
LA traffic defies reason. I've hit gridlock at 3am on the 101 before. The whole city feels like it was designed to be some elaborate torture device for commuters.
- HillaryBriss 10y ago
  It was designed for a smaller number of single car drivers than it has today. And it was not designed for quick/cheap expansion. I guess any system of transportation would feel like torture for commuters if that system is overloaded and operating beyond its reasonable capacity.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    So every major city in the US and Europe?
    - HillaryBriss 10y ago
      Don't know. Haven't visited every major city in the US and Europe. One data point: As bad as it can be at times, especially on/near The Strip, Las Vegas still seems less congested than LA.
      - shivsta 10y ago
        Great thing about Vegas is that there's not really any rush hour during the day. Only party-rush-hour at night.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  it actually works great with less people. the problem is hitting that threshold requires regulation, which is a political impossibility except for special events. http://articles.latimes.com/1985-06-07/local/me-16088_1_traffic-management http://articles.latimes.com/1985-06-07/local/me-16088_1_traf... as for the 3am traffic, that was probably night time caltrans work, or a drunk driving accident :(
  - gjolund 10y ago
    So less people driving leads to less traffic, what a surprise. I think that LA takes pride in its traffic, like some kind of shared struggle. It is the only city I have lived in that has an implied 30 minute allowance for traffic delays. Everyone understands and you can use the excuse anytime or day of the week.
arebop 10y ago
You think it would be better if it were a dendritic system? It's hard to believe that e.g., randomly walling off half of those grid links would make traffic better.
- pjlegato 10y ago
  I doubt it. It won't fix the fundamental problem of moving lots of people to where they want to go in the city. You can only do that by making the area undesirable to go to for whatever reason (probably not a good option), or by providing some alternate means of getting places. Unfortunately, due to the sprawling way LA is laid out, all of the other options are even worse than driving there. In a dense area like Manhattan, transport is not so bad because walking, cabs, or the subway are all viable alternatives in many cases. In a lower density sprawl area like Los Angeles, cabs are prohibitively expensive for most trips, the subway usually doesn't go anywhere near where you are or where you want to go, the buses are stuck in traffic like any other vehicle, and walking is dangerous (due to the lack of pedestrian-friendly sidewalks in many areas) and would take many hours for each trip. I think the best way to fix LA traffic would be to greatly increase the density and start building upwards so that walking and public transport become viable options for many more cases, but that seems very unlikely to happen anytime soon. It'd take decades to do anyway. So for now, it looks like LA is just stuck with its insane traffic status quo.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    The best way to fix it would be to build SkyTran. It's even being developed not that far away at the NASA Ames Research Center.

JBReefer 10y ago

This is called "Induced Demand"

gjolund 10y ago

LA traffic defies reason. I've hit gridlock at 3am on the 101 before. The whole city feels like it was designed to be some elaborate torture device for commuters.

HillaryBriss 10y ago
It was designed for a smaller number of single car drivers than it has today. And it was not designed for quick/cheap expansion. I guess any system of transportation would feel like torture for commuters if that system is overloaded and operating beyond its reasonable capacity.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  So every major city in the US and Europe?
  - HillaryBriss 10y ago
    Don't know. Haven't visited every major city in the US and Europe. One data point: As bad as it can be at times, especially on/near The Strip, Las Vegas still seems less congested than LA.
    - shivsta 10y ago
      Great thing about Vegas is that there's not really any rush hour during the day. Only party-rush-hour at night.
beachstartup 10y ago
it actually works great with less people. the problem is hitting that threshold requires regulation, which is a political impossibility except for special events. http://articles.latimes.com/1985-06-07/local/me-16088_1_traffic-management http://articles.latimes.com/1985-06-07/local/me-16088_1_traf... as for the 3am traffic, that was probably night time caltrans work, or a drunk driving accident :(
- gjolund 10y ago
  So less people driving leads to less traffic, what a surprise. I think that LA takes pride in its traffic, like some kind of shared struggle. It is the only city I have lived in that has an implied 30 minute allowance for traffic delays. Everyone understands and you can use the excuse anytime or day of the week.

arebop 10y ago

You think it would be better if it were a dendritic system? It's hard to believe that e.g., randomly walling off half of those grid links would make traffic better.

pjlegato 10y ago
I doubt it. It won't fix the fundamental problem of moving lots of people to where they want to go in the city. You can only do that by making the area undesirable to go to for whatever reason (probably not a good option), or by providing some alternate means of getting places. Unfortunately, due to the sprawling way LA is laid out, all of the other options are even worse than driving there. In a dense area like Manhattan, transport is not so bad because walking, cabs, or the subway are all viable alternatives in many cases. In a lower density sprawl area like Los Angeles, cabs are prohibitively expensive for most trips, the subway usually doesn't go anywhere near where you are or where you want to go, the buses are stuck in traffic like any other vehicle, and walking is dangerous (due to the lack of pedestrian-friendly sidewalks in many areas) and would take many hours for each trip. I think the best way to fix LA traffic would be to greatly increase the density and start building upwards so that walking and public transport become viable options for many more cases, but that seems very unlikely to happen anytime soon. It'd take decades to do anyway. So for now, it looks like LA is just stuck with its insane traffic status quo.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  The best way to fix it would be to build SkyTran. It's even being developed not that far away at the NASA Ames Research Center.