4 ms·

10mph is blazingly, exceptionally fast for an interstate in a major city during commute hours. Building bigger highways sparks further-flung suburbs and the ne

10mph is blazingly, exceptionally fast for an interstate in a major city during commute hours. Building bigger highways sparks further-flung suburbs and the new traffic brings everyone else's commute times back to equilibrium.

xenadu02 10y ago
Indeed, you can see this in the Dallas area. The major roads have run out of room to expand and according to the old timers traffic is no better than it was in 1990. All the road expansion did was let people move to ever more distant suburbs.
- rplst8 10y ago
  Yes, but eventually, if the roads are big enough, time itself is the deterrent to commuting a long distance. We've never gotten to that point since highway traffic never moves at speed during rush hour. The other driving factor would be wear and tear on the car - and the costs associated with maintaining a vehicle, but since Maryland doesn't have a yearly vehicle inspection, people are free to drive around on bald tires in a car with no brakes.
  - Shebanator 10y ago
    In the California Bay Area, this is not true. There is a non-trivial number of people who are willing to commute 2+ hours each way in order to live in bigger, cheaper houses in "safer" neighborhoods.
    - rplst8 10y ago
      The same is true of the Washington DC metro area... However, in both cases, I would bet that the distance involved is about 50-60 miles. If that traffic were moving at speed, it would be an hour commute - and I would submit very few people would put more than that amount of mileage on their car everyday (>30,000 miles/year).
      - alttab 10y ago
        Studies have shown that for every mile of road built, is an additional mile driven, in average, by its populace. Traffic will expand to meet its resources.
        rplst8 10y ago
        I wonder if that's a per capita statistic or population average. None-the-less, there is an upper bound of how far one can drive in a day. Somewhere an equilibrium would be met.
      - hx87 10y ago
        Given how the average car made today can do 200,000+ miles with minimal problems (especially if they're mostly highway miles), I don't think "putting too many miles on the car" would be a limiting factor.
- gerbilly 10y ago
  >All the road expansion did was let people move to ever more distant suburbs. Yes, this is called 'induced demand.'[1] And I think that Waze may be planning its own obsolescense: once it has optimized all the streets and roads in a city, they will all be equally slow. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Elasticity_of_transport_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Elasticity_of_t...

xenadu02 10y ago

Indeed, you can see this in the Dallas area. The major roads have run out of room to expand and according to the old timers traffic is no better than it was in 1990. All the road expansion did was let people move to ever more distant suburbs.

rplst8 10y ago
Yes, but eventually, if the roads are big enough, time itself is the deterrent to commuting a long distance. We've never gotten to that point since highway traffic never moves at speed during rush hour. The other driving factor would be wear and tear on the car - and the costs associated with maintaining a vehicle, but since Maryland doesn't have a yearly vehicle inspection, people are free to drive around on bald tires in a car with no brakes.
- Shebanator 10y ago
  In the California Bay Area, this is not true. There is a non-trivial number of people who are willing to commute 2+ hours each way in order to live in bigger, cheaper houses in "safer" neighborhoods.
  - rplst8 10y ago
    The same is true of the Washington DC metro area... However, in both cases, I would bet that the distance involved is about 50-60 miles. If that traffic were moving at speed, it would be an hour commute - and I would submit very few people would put more than that amount of mileage on their car everyday (>30,000 miles/year).
    - alttab 10y ago
      Studies have shown that for every mile of road built, is an additional mile driven, in average, by its populace. Traffic will expand to meet its resources.
      - rplst8 10y ago
        I wonder if that's a per capita statistic or population average. None-the-less, there is an upper bound of how far one can drive in a day. Somewhere an equilibrium would be met.
    - hx87 10y ago
      Given how the average car made today can do 200,000+ miles with minimal problems (especially if they're mostly highway miles), I don't think "putting too many miles on the car" would be a limiting factor.
gerbilly 10y ago
>All the road expansion did was let people move to ever more distant suburbs. Yes, this is called 'induced demand.'[1] And I think that Waze may be planning its own obsolescense: once it has optimized all the streets and roads in a city, they will all be equally slow. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Elasticity_of_transport_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Elasticity_of_t...