3 ms·

I actually recall this... 15 years ago, living parallel to a busy street. The various extra stop signs didn't keep people from using it. As @FroshKiller said t

by voiper1 10y ago

I actually recall this... 15 years ago, living parallel to a busy street. The various extra stop signs didn't keep people from using it. As @FroshKiller said though, it's not "my street". However, it was still a problem: there were frequently people way over the speed limit when we'd hardly expect it...

RankingMember 10y ago
Traffic calming measures (speed humps) in the area where I grew up seem to have cut down on people taking local roads to get around highway traffic.
theseatoms 10y ago
> However, it was still a problem: there were frequently people way over the speed limit when we'd hardly expect it... Sounds like recourse should be attainable via law enforcement.
- potatolicious 10y ago
  You can't ticket your way out of this problem - nor can you afford to over long periods of time. Stationing cops in enough places to actually discourage speeding is not practicable. There are fortunately lots of ways to fix this without stationing a cop every few blocks. Speed bumps are common, but imperfect. In my hometown on smaller residential streets struggling with too much through-traffic they've put traffic circles at the intersections. Locals coming home aren't much impacted but it heavily discourages fast through traffic. Another major issue is that suburban streets are simply too wide, many neighborhoods give more than the 12-foot standard width to a lane (itself a specification that is way too generous), and we know that wide lanes result in faster speeds as drivers feel safer (and everyone else feels less safe). Narrowing lanes have a proven effect of increasing driver awareness and reducing speed, and also reclaims land for use by actual people. The solution to traffic is intelligent redesign of streets - enforcement doesn't really work, especially at scale, and neither does simply telling people to stop doing bad things. Just like web engineering, user behavior is governed by what you build, not arbitrary rules that you attach to systems where it's easier to misuse them than use them properly.
  - theseatoms 10y ago
    I totally agree with the approach you've described. Ticketing is only the first step, a temporary solution that highlights unacceptable (to local residents) traffic patterns to the local government. Waze and its user are surfacing inefficiencies in how traffic patterns have been engineered. Though it'll take time for communities to plan and implement solutions, these are definitely solvable problems.
    - potatolicious 10y ago
      > "Though it'll take time for communities to plan and implement solutions" By default yeah, but it doesn't have to! I think a lot of places get into a problem where perfect is the enemy of good - they hold off on traffic calming projects because of cost. Narrowing a road by constructing new sidewalks is expensive, after all. But you don't need to do it perfectly - New York City redesigned vast portions of of its streets using nothing more than paint and traffic cones. No concrete needs to be poured nor streets torn up to get the process started - and even better, because these changes are fully reversible, they can often be implemented quickly without the usual multiple rounds of bureaucracy. In NYC the redesign of many streets was simply done by the city, and kept permanently once the quantified results proved the efficacy of the setup. Easier to ask forgiveness (especially when you have hard data) than permission and all that.
  - jimktrains2 10y ago
    > Another major issue is that suburban streets are simply too wide, many neighborhoods give more than the 12-foot standard width to a lane (itself a specification that is way too generous), While I 100% agree with this, the other side is that often these streets have parking for the houses that is more utilized at night than during the day. So, while children are out in the summer, say, the streets are ~24' wide, but in the evening, with cars parked, become only 8'- 10'.
    - potatolicious 10y ago
      There are proven solutions to this, too. Firstly, parking lanes need to be marked - it's as simple as painting a line on the ground. Simply marking parking lanes will prevent the vast majority of drivers from attempting to drive in it. Which goes back to the original point - you don't need to physically alter the street to modify driver behavior. People stay within the lines they've been assigned, but most suburban streets have an informal layout where parking and movement are mixed. Secondly, curb extensions at intersections. This is where sidewalks jut "into" the street and are tremendously beneficial. It makes the the parking lanes useless for movement because you have to merge into the movement lanes at the intersection anyways. The narrowing of the street also has a proven awareness-increasing and speed-reducing effect. Even more, it shortens the distance for pedestrians to cross and dramatically reduces car-pedestrian collision rates - and also places people crossing the streets closer to the center of driver vision rather than peripherally. Curb extensions are kind of magical
gerbilly 10y ago
>there were frequently people way over the speed limit I agree that this is bad, but we don't have to appeal to safety or illegality to oppose this kind of through traffic. I think as a resident of the street it's reasonable to expect drivers to stick to the main roads and leave your neighborhood alone. I'm a fairly tolerant person, but a car driving down a street causes many unpleasant side effects: noise and pollution being the major ones. It also inconveniences pedestrians[1], kids, cats and squirrels who want to cross the road. How would you enjoy sitting on the porch of your home if there were suddenly a river of traffic on the street? [1] It bugs me how in North America pedestrians are seen as inconveniencing a driver if they are crossing the road, but not the other way around. We have our priorities the wrong way around.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  As traffic density increases due to inevitable population rises, this first-world claim of "its my street and I want it quiet!" will have to give way to practicality. It takes years and $Millions to upgrade major roadways for ever-higher loads. In my area the rich manage to get speed bumps, intersection blocks and one-way signs installed to protect their extra-special selves from the world. I kind of resent it.

by voiper1 10y ago

RankingMember 10y ago

Traffic calming measures (speed humps) in the area where I grew up seem to have cut down on people taking local roads to get around highway traffic.

theseatoms 10y ago

> However, it was still a problem: there were frequently people way over the speed limit when we'd hardly expect it... Sounds like recourse should be attainable via law enforcement.

potatolicious 10y ago
You can't ticket your way out of this problem - nor can you afford to over long periods of time. Stationing cops in enough places to actually discourage speeding is not practicable. There are fortunately lots of ways to fix this without stationing a cop every few blocks. Speed bumps are common, but imperfect. In my hometown on smaller residential streets struggling with too much through-traffic they've put traffic circles at the intersections. Locals coming home aren't much impacted but it heavily discourages fast through traffic. Another major issue is that suburban streets are simply too wide, many neighborhoods give more than the 12-foot standard width to a lane (itself a specification that is way too generous), and we know that wide lanes result in faster speeds as drivers feel safer (and everyone else feels less safe). Narrowing lanes have a proven effect of increasing driver awareness and reducing speed, and also reclaims land for use by actual people. The solution to traffic is intelligent redesign of streets - enforcement doesn't really work, especially at scale, and neither does simply telling people to stop doing bad things. Just like web engineering, user behavior is governed by what you build, not arbitrary rules that you attach to systems where it's easier to misuse them than use them properly.
- theseatoms 10y ago
  I totally agree with the approach you've described. Ticketing is only the first step, a temporary solution that highlights unacceptable (to local residents) traffic patterns to the local government. Waze and its user are surfacing inefficiencies in how traffic patterns have been engineered. Though it'll take time for communities to plan and implement solutions, these are definitely solvable problems.
  - potatolicious 10y ago
    > "Though it'll take time for communities to plan and implement solutions" By default yeah, but it doesn't have to! I think a lot of places get into a problem where perfect is the enemy of good - they hold off on traffic calming projects because of cost. Narrowing a road by constructing new sidewalks is expensive, after all. But you don't need to do it perfectly - New York City redesigned vast portions of of its streets using nothing more than paint and traffic cones. No concrete needs to be poured nor streets torn up to get the process started - and even better, because these changes are fully reversible, they can often be implemented quickly without the usual multiple rounds of bureaucracy. In NYC the redesign of many streets was simply done by the city, and kept permanently once the quantified results proved the efficacy of the setup. Easier to ask forgiveness (especially when you have hard data) than permission and all that.
- jimktrains2 10y ago
  > Another major issue is that suburban streets are simply too wide, many neighborhoods give more than the 12-foot standard width to a lane (itself a specification that is way too generous), While I 100% agree with this, the other side is that often these streets have parking for the houses that is more utilized at night than during the day. So, while children are out in the summer, say, the streets are ~24' wide, but in the evening, with cars parked, become only 8'- 10'.
  - potatolicious 10y ago
    There are proven solutions to this, too. Firstly, parking lanes need to be marked - it's as simple as painting a line on the ground. Simply marking parking lanes will prevent the vast majority of drivers from attempting to drive in it. Which goes back to the original point - you don't need to physically alter the street to modify driver behavior. People stay within the lines they've been assigned, but most suburban streets have an informal layout where parking and movement are mixed. Secondly, curb extensions at intersections. This is where sidewalks jut "into" the street and are tremendously beneficial. It makes the the parking lanes useless for movement because you have to merge into the movement lanes at the intersection anyways. The narrowing of the street also has a proven awareness-increasing and speed-reducing effect. Even more, it shortens the distance for pedestrians to cross and dramatically reduces car-pedestrian collision rates - and also places people crossing the streets closer to the center of driver vision rather than peripherally. Curb extensions are kind of magical

gerbilly 10y ago

>there were frequently people way over the speed limit I agree that this is bad, but we don't have to appeal to safety or illegality to oppose this kind of through traffic. I think as a resident of the street it's reasonable to expect drivers to stick to the main roads and leave your neighborhood alone. I'm a fairly tolerant person, but a car driving down a street causes many unpleasant side effects: noise and pollution being the major ones. It also inconveniences pedestrians[1], kids, cats and squirrels who want to cross the road. How would you enjoy sitting on the porch of your home if there were suddenly a river of traffic on the street? [1] It bugs me how in North America pedestrians are seen as inconveniencing a driver if they are crossing the road, but not the other way around. We have our priorities the wrong way around.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
As traffic density increases due to inevitable population rises, this first-world claim of "its my street and I want it quiet!" will have to give way to practicality. It takes years and $Millions to upgrade major roadways for ever-higher loads. In my area the rich manage to get speed bumps, intersection blocks and one-way signs installed to protect their extra-special selves from the world. I kind of resent it.