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Systemd is arguably the most hated Linux software ever. Why have all major distros switched to this thing ? I don't get it.

by sunseb 10y ago

AlgorithmicTime 10y ago
The one thing it does do is push responsibility for init scripts off of package maintainers onto upstream. Which explains it, I believe.
akerro 10y ago
Less time spent maintaining init scripts.
- byuu 10y ago
  So, less than zero minutes for the vast majority of desktop users? Hell I barely even touch init (rc.d) scripts on my BSD servers.
- pmlnr 10y ago
  When was the last time you had to "maintain" an init script? Apart from the rare cases when you have to write one, which is mostly start-stop-daemon and a switch-case, when was it really a pain in the past ~8-9 years?
  - akerro 10y ago
    The last time I had to setup execution order of 7 scripts and make sure 3rd starts after 1st is already running? https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4m0r93/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rm4xh https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4m0r93/why_did_archl...
    - snaky 10y ago
      depend() { need net before inetd before xinetd } https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Working/Initscripts#Writing_initscripts https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Working/Initscript...
scrollaway 10y ago
It's the most vocally hated possibly. Certainly not the most hated. While systemd has its share of issues, it's overall high quality and reliable. I can think of far more globally hated software (Flash). Make a note that systemd-resolved is not systemd, merely "part of the systemd umbrella". -resolved is not widely deployed at all.
corney91 10y ago
A good description of why it's superior to init scripts: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_a... I don't know enough about resolved to comment on this new development, but as a sysadmin I much prefer systemd as an init system.
- dkarapetyan 10y ago
  Upstart wasn't bad at all. It actually worked really well. I've never dealt with other init scripts but now that my dev/deploy target is freebsd I don't really see any issues with shell scripts as init scripts either. I don't need any fancy parallelization and socket activation and all that fancy jazz for a backend server.
  - pas 10y ago
    It was unfinished, almost unmaintained, and basically left for dead. It was (and is still) a lot better than shell scripts, but the problem (of system [lifecycle] management, including initialization) is complex and hard to isolate/decouple and evolve in a sane manner.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    > I don't need any fancy parallelization and socket activation and all that fancy jazz for a backend server. And that is perhaps the red line. Those that have embraced systemd seems to be made up of cloud/container/web people that worry about being able to take something from 1 to 1 million servers in a heartbeat. Those that do not see the need are all those that for years have been running Linux using sysv or alternatives on the backend for various uses.
- JdeBP 10y ago
  Now read these * http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ * http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ and realize that you've brought out the same old tired red herring again. See also Hacker News: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846335 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11814419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11814419
Esau 10y ago
Because there are a group of Linux users out there who are more interested in creating a desktop-OS than a Unix-OS. Honestly, at this point, why not rename SystemD to svchost.exe and set it up to use .reg files for configuration?
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -- Bjarne Soustrop
pmlnr 10y ago
It thought that was Pulseaudio. Oh wait, same developer.
vidarh 10y ago
Because it's also very much loved, or at least detested less than SysV-init and the other stuff it replaces, by a lot of people. There are things I don't like about it, but overall it makes my experience administering servers far more pleasurable.

Systemd is arguably the most hated Linux software ever. Why have all major distros switched to this thing ? I don't get it.

by sunseb 10y ago

Systemd is arguably the most hated Linux software ever. Why have all major distros switched to this thing ? I don't get it.

AlgorithmicTime 10y ago

The one thing it does do is push responsibility for init scripts off of package maintainers onto upstream. Which explains it, I believe.

akerro 10y ago

Less time spent maintaining init scripts.

byuu 10y ago
So, less than zero minutes for the vast majority of desktop users? Hell I barely even touch init (rc.d) scripts on my BSD servers.
pmlnr 10y ago
When was the last time you had to "maintain" an init script? Apart from the rare cases when you have to write one, which is mostly start-stop-daemon and a switch-case, when was it really a pain in the past ~8-9 years?
- akerro 10y ago
  The last time I had to setup execution order of 7 scripts and make sure 3rd starts after 1st is already running? https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4m0r93/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rm4xh https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4m0r93/why_did_archl...
  - snaky 10y ago
    depend() { need net before inetd before xinetd } https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Working/Initscripts#Writing_initscripts https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Working/Initscript...

scrollaway 10y ago

It's the most vocally hated possibly. Certainly not the most hated. While systemd has its share of issues, it's overall high quality and reliable. I can think of far more globally hated software (Flash). Make a note that systemd-resolved is not systemd, merely "part of the systemd umbrella". -resolved is not widely deployed at all.

corney91 10y ago

A good description of why it's superior to init scripts: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_a... I don't know enough about resolved to comment on this new development, but as a sysadmin I much prefer systemd as an init system.

dkarapetyan 10y ago
Upstart wasn't bad at all. It actually worked really well. I've never dealt with other init scripts but now that my dev/deploy target is freebsd I don't really see any issues with shell scripts as init scripts either. I don't need any fancy parallelization and socket activation and all that fancy jazz for a backend server.
- pas 10y ago
  It was unfinished, almost unmaintained, and basically left for dead. It was (and is still) a lot better than shell scripts, but the problem (of system [lifecycle] management, including initialization) is complex and hard to isolate/decouple and evolve in a sane manner.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  > I don't need any fancy parallelization and socket activation and all that fancy jazz for a backend server. And that is perhaps the red line. Those that have embraced systemd seems to be made up of cloud/container/web people that worry about being able to take something from 1 to 1 million servers in a heartbeat. Those that do not see the need are all those that for years have been running Linux using sysv or alternatives on the backend for various uses.
JdeBP 10y ago
Now read these * http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ * http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ and realize that you've brought out the same old tired red herring again. See also Hacker News: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11846335 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11814419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11814419

Esau 10y ago

Because there are a group of Linux users out there who are more interested in creating a desktop-OS than a Unix-OS. Honestly, at this point, why not rename SystemD to svchost.exe and set it up to use .reg files for configuration?

ZeroGravitas 10y ago

"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -- Bjarne Soustrop

pmlnr 10y ago

It thought that was Pulseaudio. Oh wait, same developer.

vidarh 10y ago

Because it's also very much loved, or at least detested less than SysV-init and the other stuff it replaces, by a lot of people. There are things I don't like about it, but overall it makes my experience administering servers far more pleasurable.