4 ms·

The idea of academic cheating being bad is not a universal value. In Soviet K-12 it was more like in NASCAR - cool in moderation so long you don't get caught.

by gleb 10y ago

The idea of academic cheating being bad is not a universal value. In Soviet K-12 it was more like in NASCAR - cool in moderation so long you don't get caught. Don't know about college. In fact there is no word for [academic] "cheating" in Russian. Wonder how it is in other cultures.

sotojuan 10y ago
Anecdotal from my experience with international students: In my college most of them went back to their countries to work in their parents' or relatives' companies (sometimes). It seemed like getting a US degree was the important part, not learning the material. With a US degree, they got a ton of interviews and jobs where they learned on the job. I know for a fact my US degree would put me at a super high advantage back in my home country, even if I knew less than people there.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > It seemed like getting a US degree was the important part, not learning the material I think this describes very many students of many backgrounds.
return0 10y ago
It doesn't need to be universal. It just had to match the expectations of people from university X. It would be better if every student cheated a little, rather than just some bad actors.
zekevermillion 10y ago
That is interesting. Maybe something to do with the relationship between people and "authority"? Certainly if you are not able to collude vs. the state in an authoritarian regime, you're not going to get very far.
calibraxis 10y ago
Good point. It should also tell us about the US's own highly bureaucratic, test driven educational culture. http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/03/anti-intellectualism-terrorism-and-elections-in-contemporary-education-a-discussion-with-noam-chomsky/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/03/anti-intellectualism-... Dan Falcone: Yeah, I’ve seen this type of thinking before. The school that I’m in now is changing the department. It’s including more advanced placement test-driven subjects whereas it used to be a place where you could go to – Noam Chomsky: – Think about things. So we have people out to grab a business certificate from a big bureaucracy. (If that's what an "education" means now for many, because their job/compensation prospects are such a headache, I couldn't care less about most forms of cheating. It's not the problem to solve. Even people I know with fancy degrees have to put up with shitty workplaces.)
xo5050 10y ago
even within a single culture, you have generational differences. I remember some classes I performed pretty badly. Didn't show up, etc. and end up with a "B." Professor was from a different time.

by gleb 10y ago

sotojuan 10y ago

Anecdotal from my experience with international students: In my college most of them went back to their countries to work in their parents' or relatives' companies (sometimes). It seemed like getting a US degree was the important part, not learning the material. With a US degree, they got a ton of interviews and jobs where they learned on the job. I know for a fact my US degree would put me at a super high advantage back in my home country, even if I knew less than people there.

hackuser 10y ago
> It seemed like getting a US degree was the important part, not learning the material I think this describes very many students of many backgrounds.

return0 10y ago

It doesn't need to be universal. It just had to match the expectations of people from university X. It would be better if every student cheated a little, rather than just some bad actors.

zekevermillion 10y ago

That is interesting. Maybe something to do with the relationship between people and "authority"? Certainly if you are not able to collude vs. the state in an authoritarian regime, you're not going to get very far.

calibraxis 10y ago

Good point. It should also tell us about the US's own highly bureaucratic, test driven educational culture. http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/03/anti-intellectualism-terrorism-and-elections-in-contemporary-education-a-discussion-with-noam-chomsky/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/03/anti-intellectualism-... Dan Falcone: Yeah, I’ve seen this type of thinking before. The school that I’m in now is changing the department. It’s including more advanced placement test-driven subjects whereas it used to be a place where you could go to – Noam Chomsky: – Think about things. So we have people out to grab a business certificate from a big bureaucracy. (If that's what an "education" means now for many, because their job/compensation prospects are such a headache, I couldn't care less about most forms of cheating. It's not the problem to solve. Even people I know with fancy degrees have to put up with shitty workplaces.)

xo5050 10y ago

even within a single culture, you have generational differences. I remember some classes I performed pretty badly. Didn't show up, etc. and end up with a "B." Professor was from a different time.