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You didn't process my comment fully. I was referring to the downward pressure on all wages (and U.S. workers in particular), not those of H1-B holders. This (a

You didn't process my comment fully. I was referring to the downward pressure on all wages (and U.S. workers in particular), not those of H1-B holders. This (and my entire comment) was a rebuttal of the GP and should be read in that context. Having workers stay in the country without jobs increases labor supply, which means lower wages for U.S. workers, contrary to the GP's counter-intuitive assertion. It's simple supply and demand. But, in general, what you're describing is not the intent of the H1-B program. The purpose of that program is to allow companies to "import" supplemental labor in certain specialty fields when there is no local talent available. It is specifically a non-immigrant visa. However, people have subsequently come to view it as an immigration path and, hence the "binding" to a sponsor as unfair. But, if you go back to the original intent, the worker has agreed to enter the country at the pleasure of their sponsor. Now, if you want to do away with the H1-B concept, allow companies to hire anyone from anywhere, and allow those workers to switch employers at will, then OK. But, you have to call it something else and assess the impact accordingly. That takes us back to increased labor supply and lower wages for all. There are people who don't like that idea. It's obviously unpopular to say this, but that makes it no less true. And, if you really want to address the abuses or find a more equitable situation for visa holders, then you have to start by acknowledging the current reality.

someguydave 10y ago
>what you're describing is not the intent of the H1-B program Why does the "intent of the H1-B program" matter to anybody?
- unclebucknasty 10y ago
  Because the intent of the program informs its structure, and its structure informs the agreement under which visa holders participate.
enraged_camel 10y ago
The original intent of the H1B program does not matter. It was created for a specific purpose but has since evolved to fulfill other goals. What matters is that, ultimately, it is in the USA's best interest to have skilled and educated people from all over the world to join its population and contribute to its economy. It is one of the mechanisms through which it can stay ahead of other countries. That's why the H1B program has become one of the paths to citizenship.
- unclebucknasty 10y ago
  What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. Sorry, but if you want to fix the problems created by the program, then you have to scrap it and call the new thing something else. But, as long as it is tethered to filling specialty needs of certain companies as the core justification for holders being in-country, then you have sponsorship. And, with sponsorship comes the problems many decry. I'm not sure why any of this is controversial. The program itself may be controversial, but simply stating what it is ought not to be.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    >>What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate application process for Green Card that's independent from the work visa, and not everyone is accepted.
    - unclebucknasty 10y ago
      >It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate... That is exactly my point.
mavelikara 10y ago
H-1B is a dual intent program. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent : Dual intent is a United States immigration law concept. It generally refers to the fact that certain U.S. visas allow foreigners to be temporarily present in the U.S. with lawful status and immigrant intent. This allows those visa holders, particularly H-1B professionals, to enter the U.S. while simultaneously seeking lawful permanent resident status (green card status) at a port of entry. Otherwise, visa holders may be presumed to have immigrant intent and can be kept from entry (summarily excluded) as a matter of law.
- unclebucknasty 10y ago
  That's a slightly different interpretation of the intent to which I was referring. I was speaking to the genesis of the program. But, in this context, let's just say that immigration is not the primary intent, and the secondary intent is conditioned upon the primary. More specifically, the "lawful status" that prefaces immigration is conditioned upon sponsorship.

someguydave 10y ago

>what you're describing is not the intent of the H1-B program Why does the "intent of the H1-B program" matter to anybody?

unclebucknasty 10y ago
Because the intent of the program informs its structure, and its structure informs the agreement under which visa holders participate.

enraged_camel 10y ago

The original intent of the H1B program does not matter. It was created for a specific purpose but has since evolved to fulfill other goals. What matters is that, ultimately, it is in the USA's best interest to have skilled and educated people from all over the world to join its population and contribute to its economy. It is one of the mechanisms through which it can stay ahead of other countries. That's why the H1B program has become one of the paths to citizenship.

unclebucknasty 10y ago
What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. Sorry, but if you want to fix the problems created by the program, then you have to scrap it and call the new thing something else. But, as long as it is tethered to filling specialty needs of certain companies as the core justification for holders being in-country, then you have sponsorship. And, with sponsorship comes the problems many decry. I'm not sure why any of this is controversial. The program itself may be controversial, but simply stating what it is ought not to be.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>What it has not evolved into is an unconditional, open door to citizenship or permanent residence. It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate application process for Green Card that's independent from the work visa, and not everyone is accepted.
  - unclebucknasty 10y ago
    >It isn't an unconditional open door. That's why there's a separate... That is exactly my point.

mavelikara 10y ago

H-1B is a dual intent program. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent : Dual intent is a United States immigration law concept. It generally refers to the fact that certain U.S. visas allow foreigners to be temporarily present in the U.S. with lawful status and immigrant intent. This allows those visa holders, particularly H-1B professionals, to enter the U.S. while simultaneously seeking lawful permanent resident status (green card status) at a port of entry. Otherwise, visa holders may be presumed to have immigrant intent and can be kept from entry (summarily excluded) as a matter of law.

unclebucknasty 10y ago
That's a slightly different interpretation of the intent to which I was referring. I was speaking to the genesis of the program. But, in this context, let's just say that immigration is not the primary intent, and the secondary intent is conditioned upon the primary. More specifically, the "lawful status" that prefaces immigration is conditioned upon sponsorship.