4 ms·

Hey Ryan, Let me just start by saying I think you're a totally reasonable person and I respect your thoughts,[1] so let's talk some more about why we've come d

Hey Ryan, Let me just start by saying I think you're a totally reasonable person and I respect your thoughts,[1] so let's talk some more about why we've come down seeing things a bit differently here. So first off, I think that I've seen a lot more consistency from you than from other parts of the Internet. And that's cool, consistency is worth doing and I also agree skepticism is good. It's a value I hold. It's a value I know Meredith holds too. What is also true though, and I think anyone who examines this closely will also come to the conclusion that claims women make get a much higher degree of skepticism, accusations of bias and face a much higher bar before being accepted or believed. So even when you just compare responses to tweets people made (Nick tweeted yesterday too) or longer form stories that people wrote (that one site has collected a bunch now) you'll see the stark difference in how people respond to things posted by women vs. things posted by men. It contributes a lot to why being on the Internet as a woman is a much more problematic thing and why women don't get taken seriously. It's a real thing, and it'd be best if we were able to learn more from it. Please feel free to spend some more time to examine various threads and comments in various places. I'm sure you'll come to your own conclusions and I'll be interested to hear what you think. [1] You may not know me, but we've got some mutual friends and I've generally appreciated your commentary before being pretty on the level!

rdl 10y ago
I'd generally agree that sexual claims are taken more skeptically, and that the way they're dismissed tends to be different (and gendered). Ironically while sexual claims are dismissed more, male-victim sexual claims are dismissed even more than female-victim sexual claims (although female-victim is more common, outside prison/military). I see this more as a sexual/violence/sexual-violence vs. professional ethics/other difference. In this specific case, I think you'll see non-sexual claims from men and women treated the same (although trolls probably dismiss them in a gender-specific way, i.e. going after Andrea's appearance and after Nick in other ways). I don't think ethical issues other than sexual issues would be treated/believed substantially differently based on the gender of the victim here. (I also think a lot of people are uncomfortable discussing sexual violence related problems, so while those certainly need to be addressed as well, if some people only want to focus on the plagiarism/ethics/work-stealing/etc. aspects, that seems like it could still be positive. Doesn't mean other people can't pursue the sexual/violence related issues with a person.)

rdl 10y ago

I'd generally agree that sexual claims are taken more skeptically, and that the way they're dismissed tends to be different (and gendered). Ironically while sexual claims are dismissed more, male-victim sexual claims are dismissed even more than female-victim sexual claims (although female-victim is more common, outside prison/military). I see this more as a sexual/violence/sexual-violence vs. professional ethics/other difference. In this specific case, I think you'll see non-sexual claims from men and women treated the same (although trolls probably dismiss them in a gender-specific way, i.e. going after Andrea's appearance and after Nick in other ways). I don't think ethical issues other than sexual issues would be treated/believed substantially differently based on the gender of the victim here. (I also think a lot of people are uncomfortable discussing sexual violence related problems, so while those certainly need to be addressed as well, if some people only want to focus on the plagiarism/ethics/work-stealing/etc. aspects, that seems like it could still be positive. Doesn't mean other people can't pursue the sexual/violence related issues with a person.)