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I had a friend at HP - who worked in a group arranging for "tourists" to staff HP projects. It was a "secret" group offsite from HQ and they got lists of major

by MrTonyD 10y ago

I had a friend at HP - who worked in a group arranging for "tourists" to staff HP projects. It was a "secret" group offsite from HQ and they got lists of major development projects. Then they worked with recruiters worldwide to find staff. They would arrange cars at the airport, long term hotels, and rotated teams in and out of the country to keep the project going. They did this for years and years. We need some real laws with real enforcement. Right now, there are too many ways to evade the H1B program. My understanding it that most foreign workers aren't using that program - and that other programs were specifically set up with minimal monitoring in order to provide a way to get around the H1B program. So the numbers of foreign workers being reported is a complete fiction.

revelation 10y ago
Sounds like the Tesla case: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/16/elon-musk-tesla-wages-apology https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/16/elon-musk...
- MrTonyD 10y ago
  That does sound similar. One difference I notice - my friend's boss met routinely with executive staff and senior managers at HP to go over future projects. They all made an effort to keep their entire organization secret - even renting offices to do the development off-site in the Bay Area. I have no doubt that HP's use of tourist visas for staffing was well known to all their executives. I do know that HP was working on a lot of secret defense department programs at the time - I wonder how many of those secret military programs were actually implemented by foreign nationals hidden away at HP?
jmspring 10y ago
I think if H1-B, and skilled visas in general, was truly about skill level and best fit, fine. However, every situation (like Disney) where visas are used to bring in labor to be trained to replace technical workers who may not necessarily be the HN crowd, but are a vital part of business, should be disallowed. If a company wants to offshore, fine, but it shouldn't use the Visa system to have workers being replaced training their replacements.
- MrTonyD 10y ago
  I don't really know if skill level should be the only consideration. I think that every country has an obligation to consider its citizens. I'm not saying that citizenship should be the only consideration - but I do think that it should be a strong one. Here in the US, I know many technical people who hit mid-forties and couldn't find a job anymore, in spite of having great technical skills. So maybe there should be some obligation to make sure that a country's citizens are doing OK before allowing skill to be the primary consideration? I don't know -- but I do know that something is wrong with the way we're doing it now.
  - jmspring 10y ago
    I personally hate the H1-B/visa system for anything but skilled graduates being targeted for specific roles. I also hate the loss of the social contract where companies actually invested employees and helped them grow. IBM, Disney and others are trying for a race to the bottom. I also know that it is incumbent on people in our field to stay on top of things, continue to learn, etc. But not everywhere has the same access to knowledge (or may not know how to find it) as those of us already naturally curious. In no form should Visas be granted to bring workers over to be trained by those replacing them. Unless maybe it's something insane like $100k/head going into training programs. But, that's all fantasy on my part.

by MrTonyD 10y ago

revelation 10y ago

Sounds like the Tesla case: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/16/elon-musk-tesla-wages-apology https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/16/elon-musk...

MrTonyD 10y ago
That does sound similar. One difference I notice - my friend's boss met routinely with executive staff and senior managers at HP to go over future projects. They all made an effort to keep their entire organization secret - even renting offices to do the development off-site in the Bay Area. I have no doubt that HP's use of tourist visas for staffing was well known to all their executives. I do know that HP was working on a lot of secret defense department programs at the time - I wonder how many of those secret military programs were actually implemented by foreign nationals hidden away at HP?

jmspring 10y ago

I think if H1-B, and skilled visas in general, was truly about skill level and best fit, fine. However, every situation (like Disney) where visas are used to bring in labor to be trained to replace technical workers who may not necessarily be the HN crowd, but are a vital part of business, should be disallowed. If a company wants to offshore, fine, but it shouldn't use the Visa system to have workers being replaced training their replacements.

MrTonyD 10y ago
I don't really know if skill level should be the only consideration. I think that every country has an obligation to consider its citizens. I'm not saying that citizenship should be the only consideration - but I do think that it should be a strong one. Here in the US, I know many technical people who hit mid-forties and couldn't find a job anymore, in spite of having great technical skills. So maybe there should be some obligation to make sure that a country's citizens are doing OK before allowing skill to be the primary consideration? I don't know -- but I do know that something is wrong with the way we're doing it now.
- jmspring 10y ago
  I personally hate the H1-B/visa system for anything but skilled graduates being targeted for specific roles. I also hate the loss of the social contract where companies actually invested employees and helped them grow. IBM, Disney and others are trying for a race to the bottom. I also know that it is incumbent on people in our field to stay on top of things, continue to learn, etc. But not everywhere has the same access to knowledge (or may not know how to find it) as those of us already naturally curious. In no form should Visas be granted to bring workers over to be trained by those replacing them. Unless maybe it's something insane like $100k/head going into training programs. But, that's all fantasy on my part.