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This might be interesting to some: The big tech companies in the Bay area may initially hire recent international student graduates on F-1 OPT status and then

by verst 10y ago

This might be interesting to some: The big tech companies in the Bay area may initially hire recent international student graduates on F-1 OPT status and then attempt to apply for their H-1B. If this fails the common approach is to move them to Europe (usually Dublin) to work there for a year. After that time they can return on L-1 (company internal transfer) visas. Note that these candidates are extremely competitive in terms of performance, don't replace anyone, and are paid the same kind of salaries as any other highly qualified individuals.

selectron 10y ago
The don't replace anyone statement doesn't make any sense. Instead of training foreign workers we could be training American workers for these jobs.
- itsnotlupus 10y ago
  Do you mean to train them against their will?
  - selectron 10y ago
    There are always people willing to do the job at the right price and work conditions. Companies would rather pay lower salaries with worse working conditions than pay US workers the wages needed to match the demand. It is basic supply and demand - the more supply of something the less demand it has. The country as a whole may benefit from immigration but the US workers who have to compete with foreign workers definitely do not.
- verst 10y ago
  Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer based assistance, not even subsidized loans). This in effect often subsidizes the cost of tuition for the domestic students. [EDIT: This is the case in the University of California system where the percentage of out of state and international students admissions increases to deal with budget problems.] The companies in question here expect individuals to have worked on significant projects, demonstrated ambition and passion outside of their regular coursework. Those who can generally have no problem being hired.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense of entitlement that because you went to school in the US the US owes you a job. Wow. This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend. This idea of relocating people to London for year is just gaming the system.
    - DrScump 10y ago
      <Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens?> It may be a reference to the fact that many public colleges have tuition breaks for residents. The other side of that coin is availability. That practice gives those schools a financial incentive to grant full-retail foreign students admission priority over residents. That's certainly the case in California.
      - verst 10y ago
        The University of California system is exactly what I was referring to. They increasingly admit more out of state and international students to deal with their increasing budget problems and to counteract otherwise necessary larger tuition increases. I'm not saying this is good or bad. Just stating that this is happening.
      - bogomipz 10y ago
        Yes because your Mom and Dad paid taxes in that state, thats hardly a subsidy!
    - vthallam 10y ago
      I don't think his statement implies any of the things you are referring to. If you reread the comment again, he is making the argument that the students who went to school in US and are good at what they do should not be discriminated in hiring because they are not US citizens. > This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend. There is definitely a dearth in the STEM students who are US citizens and have an under-grad/grad degree from top schools. All the ones who are already places. My company hires from the top 30 schools in US and when my team went for Intern hiring, they couldn't find enough US citizens with masters degree. It's a supply demand problem.
Bahamut 10y ago
I can verify this is true - I have a friend at Facebook in Menlo Park caught in this situation (he is an engineer still on a student visa, graduated from a top CS program), so he is moving to London for at least an year so that he is eligible to transfer back on an L-1 (the H-1B lottery hasn't been kind to him).
cplanas 10y ago
I know someone in a similar, but slightly different situation. He worked for a European-based SaaS company; an American competitor offered him a job in the Bay. When he didn't win the lottery, they had him working in Dublin for a year, and now he is in SF on a L1.
- verst 10y ago
  Right. That's a common route for those who didn't attend a US university and didn't win the lottery. If you went to a US university, you would have started working on your F1 OPT. You now have 3 years to win the lottery. If that were to fail (EDIT: you are an essential employee and you happen to work for one of the large tech companies) you'd likely be moved to a foreign office of that company for a year, then transferred back in on a L-1 visa.

by verst 10y ago

selectron 10y ago

The don't replace anyone statement doesn't make any sense. Instead of training foreign workers we could be training American workers for these jobs.

itsnotlupus 10y ago
Do you mean to train them against their will?
- selectron 10y ago
  There are always people willing to do the job at the right price and work conditions. Companies would rather pay lower salaries with worse working conditions than pay US workers the wages needed to match the demand. It is basic supply and demand - the more supply of something the less demand it has. The country as a whole may benefit from immigration but the US workers who have to compete with foreign workers definitely do not.
verst 10y ago
Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer based assistance, not even subsidized loans). This in effect often subsidizes the cost of tuition for the domestic students. [EDIT: This is the case in the University of California system where the percentage of out of state and international students admissions increases to deal with budget problems.] The companies in question here expect individuals to have worked on significant projects, demonstrated ambition and passion outside of their regular coursework. Those who can generally have no problem being hired.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense of entitlement that because you went to school in the US the US owes you a job. Wow. This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend. This idea of relocating people to London for year is just gaming the system.
  - DrScump 10y ago
    <Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens?> It may be a reference to the fact that many public colleges have tuition breaks for residents. The other side of that coin is availability. That practice gives those schools a financial incentive to grant full-retail foreign students admission priority over residents. That's certainly the case in California.
    - verst 10y ago
      The University of California system is exactly what I was referring to. They increasingly admit more out of state and international students to deal with their increasing budget problems and to counteract otherwise necessary larger tuition increases. I'm not saying this is good or bad. Just stating that this is happening.
    - bogomipz 10y ago
      Yes because your Mom and Dad paid taxes in that state, thats hardly a subsidy!
  - vthallam 10y ago
    I don't think his statement implies any of the things you are referring to. If you reread the comment again, he is making the argument that the students who went to school in US and are good at what they do should not be discriminated in hiring because they are not US citizens. > This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend. There is definitely a dearth in the STEM students who are US citizens and have an under-grad/grad degree from top schools. All the ones who are already places. My company hires from the top 30 schools in US and when my team went for Intern hiring, they couldn't find enough US citizens with masters degree. It's a supply demand problem.

Bahamut 10y ago

I can verify this is true - I have a friend at Facebook in Menlo Park caught in this situation (he is an engineer still on a student visa, graduated from a top CS program), so he is moving to London for at least an year so that he is eligible to transfer back on an L-1 (the H-1B lottery hasn't been kind to him).

cplanas 10y ago

I know someone in a similar, but slightly different situation. He worked for a European-based SaaS company; an American competitor offered him a job in the Bay. When he didn't win the lottery, they had him working in Dublin for a year, and now he is in SF on a L1.

verst 10y ago
Right. That's a common route for those who didn't attend a US university and didn't win the lottery. If you went to a US university, you would have started working on your F1 OPT. You now have 3 years to win the lottery. If that were to fail (EDIT: you are an essential employee and you happen to work for one of the large tech companies) you'd likely be moved to a foreign office of that company for a year, then transferred back in on a L-1 visa.