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This abuse of the H-1B program also hurts the many students attending US universities, hoping to gain work experience here post graduation. Remember that the n

by verst 10y ago

This abuse of the H-1B program also hurts the many students attending US universities, hoping to gain work experience here post graduation. Remember that the number of H-1B visas granted every year are capped. Plenty of students from top US universities (and often at the top of their class) cannot accept jobs (or only do so for a very short term under the F-1 OPT program) for which they are the most qualified candidate because they cannot attain the right to work.

verst 10y ago
This might be interesting to some: The big tech companies in the Bay area may initially hire recent international student graduates on F-1 OPT status and then attempt to apply for their H-1B. If this fails the common approach is to move them to Europe (usually Dublin) to work there for a year. After that time they can return on L-1 (company internal transfer) visas. Note that these candidates are extremely competitive in terms of performance, don't replace anyone, and are paid the same kind of salaries as any other highly qualified individuals.
- selectron 10y ago
  The don't replace anyone statement doesn't make any sense. Instead of training foreign workers we could be training American workers for these jobs.
  - itsnotlupus 10y ago
    Do you mean to train them against their will?
    - selectron 10y ago
      There are always people willing to do the job at the right price and work conditions. Companies would rather pay lower salaries with worse working conditions than pay US workers the wages needed to match the demand. It is basic supply and demand - the more supply of something the less demand it has. The country as a whole may benefit from immigration but the US workers who have to compete with foreign workers definitely do not.
  - verst 10y ago
    Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer based assistance, not even subsidized loans). This in effect often subsidizes the cost of tuition for the domestic students. [EDIT: This is the case in the University of California system where the percentage of out of state and international students admissions increases to deal with budget problems.] The companies in question here expect individuals to have worked on significant projects, demonstrated ambition and passion outside of their regular coursework. Those who can generally have no problem being hired.
    - bogomipz 10y ago
      Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense of entitlement that because you went to school in the US the US owes you a job. Wow. This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend. This idea of relocating people to London for year is just gaming the system.
      - DrScump 10y ago
        <Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens?> It may be a reference to the fact that many public colleges have tuition breaks for residents. The other side of that coin is availability. That practice gives those schools a financial incentive to grant full-retail foreign students admission priority over residents. That's certainly the case in California.
- Bahamut 10y ago
  I can verify this is true - I have a friend at Facebook in Menlo Park caught in this situation (he is an engineer still on a student visa, graduated from a top CS program), so he is moving to London for at least an year so that he is eligible to transfer back on an L-1 (the H-1B lottery hasn't been kind to him).
- cplanas 10y ago
  I know someone in a similar, but slightly different situation. He worked for a European-based SaaS company; an American competitor offered him a job in the Bay. When he didn't win the lottery, they had him working in Dublin for a year, and now he is in SF on a L1.
  - verst 10y ago
    Right. That's a common route for those who didn't attend a US university and didn't win the lottery. If you went to a US university, you would have started working on your F1 OPT. You now have 3 years to win the lottery. If that were to fail (EDIT: you are an essential employee and you happen to work for one of the large tech companies) you'd likely be moved to a foreign office of that company for a year, then transferred back in on a L-1 visa.
chrisper 10y ago
The OPT as been extended to 24 months now. But sadly, one can't go from OPT to Greencard. I would have to go through H1B, which is stupid. Also, the cap is only an issue because the system is getting abused. Even then, it's stupid to give out the visa through lottery once the cap is reached.
- verst 10y ago
  29 months actually - from the typical graduation filing date of April 1 to the H1B validity start date of October 1 two years later. This 17 months extension only applied to STEM majors last time I checked. It was introduced in the spring of 2009 per DHS executive order (memo). EDIT: Apparently the duration was changed recently. See comment below.
  - chrisper 10y ago
    It used to be 17 months. Now it is 24 months. This is a new rule which started this year in March. >On March 11, 2016, the Department of Homeland Security published a final rule allowing certain F-1 students who receive science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) degrees, and who meet other specified requirements, to apply for a 24-month extension of their post-completion OPT. The 24-month extension will replace the 17-month STEM OPT extension previously available to STEM students (see 73 FR 18944). Eligible students may now apply for a 24-month STEM OPT extension. https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/students-and-exchange-visitors/students-and-employment/stem-opt https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/students-and-exc...
    - verst 10y ago
      Thanks! I stand corrected! Does that mean the H1B validity now also starts before October 1? The 17 month extension would have ended October 1 (traditionally the H1B start date). So I am curious what happens if one applies for and is granted the H1B in their third year under OPT.
      - chrisper 10y ago

by verst 10y ago

verst 10y ago

This might be interesting to some: The big tech companies in the Bay area may initially hire recent international student graduates on F-1 OPT status and then attempt to apply for their H-1B. If this fails the common approach is to move them to Europe (usually Dublin) to work there for a year. After that time they can return on L-1 (company internal transfer) visas. Note that these candidates are extremely competitive in terms of performance, don't replace anyone, and are paid the same kind of salaries as any other highly qualified individuals.

selectron 10y ago
The don't replace anyone statement doesn't make any sense. Instead of training foreign workers we could be training American workers for these jobs.
- itsnotlupus 10y ago
  Do you mean to train them against their will?
  - selectron 10y ago
    There are always people willing to do the job at the right price and work conditions. Companies would rather pay lower salaries with worse working conditions than pay US workers the wages needed to match the demand. It is basic supply and demand - the more supply of something the less demand it has. The country as a whole may benefit from immigration but the US workers who have to compete with foreign workers definitely do not.
- verst 10y ago
  Are you suggesting that companies should not be able to hire the most qualified individuals who went through the same system as everybody else? [EDIT (rephrasing): There is no particular training provided. The international students received the same education as US students at US institutions.] International students generally have to pay for everything out of pocket (they are not eligible for any public/tax-payer based assistance, not even subsidized loans). This in effect often subsidizes the cost of tuition for the domestic students. [EDIT: This is the case in the University of California system where the percentage of out of state and international students admissions increases to deal with budget problems.] The companies in question here expect individuals to have worked on significant projects, demonstrated ambition and passion outside of their regular coursework. Those who can generally have no problem being hired.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens? That is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on HN. US student's educations are paid for by student loans, they fund their own tuitions I can assure you. Attending university in the US is a privilege and that does not mean you should be guaranteed a job in the United States upon graduation. You seem to have a real sense of entitlement that because you went to school in the US the US owes you a job. Wow. This idea that the most talented people can only be found from outside the US needs to just die. If the US were so bereft of talent none of these companies that these H1B visa folks want to work for would exist. Ditto for the US universities they attend. This idea of relocating people to London for year is just gaming the system.
    - DrScump 10y ago
      <Are you seriously saying that foreign students subsidize the education of US citizens?> It may be a reference to the fact that many public colleges have tuition breaks for residents. The other side of that coin is availability. That practice gives those schools a financial incentive to grant full-retail foreign students admission priority over residents. That's certainly the case in California.
Bahamut 10y ago
I can verify this is true - I have a friend at Facebook in Menlo Park caught in this situation (he is an engineer still on a student visa, graduated from a top CS program), so he is moving to London for at least an year so that he is eligible to transfer back on an L-1 (the H-1B lottery hasn't been kind to him).
cplanas 10y ago
I know someone in a similar, but slightly different situation. He worked for a European-based SaaS company; an American competitor offered him a job in the Bay. When he didn't win the lottery, they had him working in Dublin for a year, and now he is in SF on a L1.
- verst 10y ago
  Right. That's a common route for those who didn't attend a US university and didn't win the lottery. If you went to a US university, you would have started working on your F1 OPT. You now have 3 years to win the lottery. If that were to fail (EDIT: you are an essential employee and you happen to work for one of the large tech companies) you'd likely be moved to a foreign office of that company for a year, then transferred back in on a L-1 visa.

chrisper 10y ago

The OPT as been extended to 24 months now. But sadly, one can't go from OPT to Greencard. I would have to go through H1B, which is stupid. Also, the cap is only an issue because the system is getting abused. Even then, it's stupid to give out the visa through lottery once the cap is reached.

verst 10y ago
29 months actually - from the typical graduation filing date of April 1 to the H1B validity start date of October 1 two years later. This 17 months extension only applied to STEM majors last time I checked. It was introduced in the spring of 2009 per DHS executive order (memo). EDIT: Apparently the duration was changed recently. See comment below.
- chrisper 10y ago
  It used to be 17 months. Now it is 24 months. This is a new rule which started this year in March. >On March 11, 2016, the Department of Homeland Security published a final rule allowing certain F-1 students who receive science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) degrees, and who meet other specified requirements, to apply for a 24-month extension of their post-completion OPT. The 24-month extension will replace the 17-month STEM OPT extension previously available to STEM students (see 73 FR 18944). Eligible students may now apply for a 24-month STEM OPT extension. https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/students-and-exchange-visitors/students-and-employment/stem-opt https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/students-and-exc...
  - verst 10y ago
    Thanks! I stand corrected! Does that mean the H1B validity now also starts before October 1? The 17 month extension would have ended October 1 (traditionally the H1B start date). So I am curious what happens if one applies for and is granted the H1B in their third year under OPT.
    - chrisper 10y ago