4 ms·

To make this clear, you may as well ask if surgeons need to go to med school. It's required by regulation and tradition. Same with lawyers. It's more an indicat

by T_S_ 17y ago

To make this clear, you may as well ask if surgeons need to go to med school. It's required by regulation and tradition. Same with lawyers. It's more an indication of the maturity of the field than the ability of the person, although it hopefully represents a relevant hurdle. So if you can devise a quantum computer without a PhD then the lack of one won't hold you back.

geebee 17y ago
I don't think it's the same question - the function of a PhD for science researchers is very different from the MD/residency for surgeons, which is actually very different from the function of a JD and the Bar for lawyers (lawyers don't go through anything like the apprenticeship a surgeon goes through to become licensed, and a PhD generally doesn't provide a license to do anything). Also, keep in mind that many people believe that the Bar and AMA are actually large scale cartels that do more to harm the public than good. This isn't necessarily an argument that credentials and licensing are bad per se, it's an argument that the scarcity of services causes more damage than the dilution of talent (for instance, nurse practitioners might be able to provide a very high level of service in areas where MD's currently enjoy a monopoly). I'm one of the folks who are frustrated with the cartel-like behavior of professional associations in the US (and elsewhere), but there's obviously a wide range of opinions on the subject - some think they should be essentially abolished, others think they are fine in principle but need to be reigned in to ensure that "protecting the public" doesn't morph into "protecting the cartel." It's controversial, of course. But you might be interested in reading Milton Friedman's essay on the licensing of Medical professionals (just google for it, you'll find it quickly). Regardless of whether you agree with it, you'll probably find it interesting.
arethuza 17y ago
Medics, lawyers, accountants etc. are professionally qualified, a PhD is an academic qualification. They need to be licensed to do their job and if they aren't they can't do it. Not the same thing at all.
- foldr 17y ago
  It's pretty similar in practice, though. A PhD is effectively a "license" to hold an academic position.
  - Perceval 17y ago
    Perhaps we need a professional degree for research science. A JD is different from a Law Ph.D. and an MD is different from a Ph.D in Medicine--so it stands to reason that we could have a professional degree as a professional rather than academic qualification.
    - foldr 17y ago
      I don't really see any need for that distinction. The curriculum would presumably be about the same for both degrees.
      - arethuza 17y ago
        I don't really see the point either - the reason why there are professional qualifications (apart from the monopolistic reasons) is to ensure that people who have responsible jobs meet some minimum level of competence. If an academic screws up, nobody really gets harmed that badly. Contrast that with a medic, lawyers, PE etc.
      - Perceval 17y ago
        If you don't want to be an academic the curriculum might not be different, but the dissertation requirement could probably be done away with. Some universities have changed their Ph.D. programs such that you can graduate with 3 published articles in a peer reviewed journal. That seems like a reasonable standard for a professional degree, as opposed to a full dissertation for an academic degree.
  - arethuza 17y ago
    Yes but the big difference between a professional qualification and an academic one is that the former can be taken away from you if you screw up badly enough.
rubidium 17y ago
I think the key point of the article is "Given the increasing rigidity and length of the Western academic pipeline which now extends so far beyond the PhD that the average age for first-time principal investigators on grants from the US National Institutes of Health is 42 the BGI model may be worth serious consideration." This isn't even just getting a PhD. It's the whole post-doc rigmarole after that too. The question remains, I think, a valid one. Does our current postgraduate system work well, or could it be better? Sounds like BGI is trying a great experiment and I'll be interested to see the results.

by T_S_ 17y ago

geebee 17y ago

I don't think it's the same question - the function of a PhD for science researchers is very different from the MD/residency for surgeons, which is actually very different from the function of a JD and the Bar for lawyers (lawyers don't go through anything like the apprenticeship a surgeon goes through to become licensed, and a PhD generally doesn't provide a license to do anything). Also, keep in mind that many people believe that the Bar and AMA are actually large scale cartels that do more to harm the public than good. This isn't necessarily an argument that credentials and licensing are bad per se, it's an argument that the scarcity of services causes more damage than the dilution of talent (for instance, nurse practitioners might be able to provide a very high level of service in areas where MD's currently enjoy a monopoly). I'm one of the folks who are frustrated with the cartel-like behavior of professional associations in the US (and elsewhere), but there's obviously a wide range of opinions on the subject - some think they should be essentially abolished, others think they are fine in principle but need to be reigned in to ensure that "protecting the public" doesn't morph into "protecting the cartel." It's controversial, of course. But you might be interested in reading Milton Friedman's essay on the licensing of Medical professionals (just google for it, you'll find it quickly). Regardless of whether you agree with it, you'll probably find it interesting.

arethuza 17y ago

Medics, lawyers, accountants etc. are professionally qualified, a PhD is an academic qualification. They need to be licensed to do their job and if they aren't they can't do it. Not the same thing at all.

foldr 17y ago
It's pretty similar in practice, though. A PhD is effectively a "license" to hold an academic position.
- Perceval 17y ago
  Perhaps we need a professional degree for research science. A JD is different from a Law Ph.D. and an MD is different from a Ph.D in Medicine--so it stands to reason that we could have a professional degree as a professional rather than academic qualification.
  - foldr 17y ago
    I don't really see any need for that distinction. The curriculum would presumably be about the same for both degrees.
    - arethuza 17y ago
      I don't really see the point either - the reason why there are professional qualifications (apart from the monopolistic reasons) is to ensure that people who have responsible jobs meet some minimum level of competence. If an academic screws up, nobody really gets harmed that badly. Contrast that with a medic, lawyers, PE etc.
    - Perceval 17y ago
      If you don't want to be an academic the curriculum might not be different, but the dissertation requirement could probably be done away with. Some universities have changed their Ph.D. programs such that you can graduate with 3 published articles in a peer reviewed journal. That seems like a reasonable standard for a professional degree, as opposed to a full dissertation for an academic degree.
- arethuza 17y ago
  Yes but the big difference between a professional qualification and an academic one is that the former can be taken away from you if you screw up badly enough.

rubidium 17y ago

I think the key point of the article is "Given the increasing rigidity and length of the Western academic pipeline which now extends so far beyond the PhD that the average age for first-time principal investigators on grants from the US National Institutes of Health is 42 the BGI model may be worth serious consideration." This isn't even just getting a PhD. It's the whole post-doc rigmarole after that too. The question remains, I think, a valid one. Does our current postgraduate system work well, or could it be better? Sounds like BGI is trying a great experiment and I'll be interested to see the results.