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Vehicle manufacturers also have this same mindset issue with their in-vehicle entertainment systems. For them things are either a "recall" or they don't exist,

Vehicle manufacturers also have this same mindset issue with their in-vehicle entertainment systems. For them things are either a "recall" or they don't exist, they have no concept of software updates or how to deliver them.

kabdib 10y ago
Or, honestly, how to do software. I can crash my Subaru's audio system just by handing it a sufficiently large MP3 file to play. Let's not even go to how bad Bluetooth is. And they will never, ever fix it.
newman314 10y ago
Actually, that's not quite true. I know of at least one manufacturer whose internal commitment is 15 years. HOWEVER, the problem is all the third party interfaces that these systems increasingly leverage. I can pretty much guarantee that Google Maps is not going to be the same 15 years down the road and I very much doubt Google has the interest in supporting something for that period of time. So somewhere down the road, we'll end up with all these cars that part of the early stages of connected cars that end up having completely unusable systems.
- plttn 10y ago
  And that's why Android Auto (and possibly CarPlay) are just dumb streams from the device to the car infotainment system, and input streams back. The car doesn't need to know what's on screen, and the phone doesn't need to know the capabilities of the infotainment system.
superuser2 10y ago
Yep. I find it baffling that people in the tech industry (who should know better) are enthusiastic about vehicle infotainment systems, Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, etc. Keep it simple. Power, a 3.5mm audio connector, and a windshield suction mount. Something they can't screw up too badly. I can easily buy a new smartphone every 2 years, but a car I'm going to hold on to for more like 10. Why would I want to be stuck with a 5-generation-old navigation/music player system when the car is still fine?
- heeen2 10y ago
  Carplay and android auto are solving this problem by running all the logic on the phone. Android auto is literally a h264 stream of content generated on the phone and a reverse stream of input events from the car display to the phone. All the updating will happen on the phone.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Why would I want to be stuck with a 5-generation-old navigation/music player system when the car is still fine? Why would you be? Isn't this a solved problem? When you want to upgrade your entertainment system, you head to somewhere like Crutchfield or Sonic or Best Buy and buy a new one to plug in. In many cars, it takes less time to install a new car infotainment unit than it takes to buy a new iPhone from a carrier store. (It's often cheaper too). For people afraid of wires, bored teens at Best Buy will install it all for you for an extra $70.
  - jimbobimbo 10y ago
    What cars are we talking about? Modern cars integrate their entertainment system with a bunch of car-specific features, so it's no longer possible to swap "just the player" unit, like it was possible earlier.
    - maxsilver 10y ago
      I'm using a Toyota Yaris as an example. All recent models (including the current 2016 model) can be swapped out easily. With Electric cars / Hybrids, I can see issues since they integrate environmental controls and other stuff in to their radios. I suspect as electric cars become more common, entertainment companies will start building units with support for those features.
      - jimbobimbo 10y ago
        Interesting... Wouldn't think anybody still does it. It's already impossible to do in 5th-gen Camaros, for example (2010-2015). I wouldn't be surprised that other Chevy cars are the same way.
Raj123123 10y ago
My car getting hacked could potentially cause loss of life - my router or laptop can't so easily. However, some security can be had by enforcing physical-only updates. My router requires updates by ethernet cable (physical) so I would prefer my car to be the same - even if I have to bring it into a certified shop.
vvanders 10y ago
That is why Tesla is so awesome. They improve the entire fleet with each update and increase the brand value as a whole. It took Toyota a long time to build their reputation you'd think other manufactures would do the same WRT software.

kabdib 10y ago

Or, honestly, how to do software. I can crash my Subaru's audio system just by handing it a sufficiently large MP3 file to play. Let's not even go to how bad Bluetooth is. And they will never, ever fix it.

newman314 10y ago

Actually, that's not quite true. I know of at least one manufacturer whose internal commitment is 15 years. HOWEVER, the problem is all the third party interfaces that these systems increasingly leverage. I can pretty much guarantee that Google Maps is not going to be the same 15 years down the road and I very much doubt Google has the interest in supporting something for that period of time. So somewhere down the road, we'll end up with all these cars that part of the early stages of connected cars that end up having completely unusable systems.

plttn 10y ago
And that's why Android Auto (and possibly CarPlay) are just dumb streams from the device to the car infotainment system, and input streams back. The car doesn't need to know what's on screen, and the phone doesn't need to know the capabilities of the infotainment system.

superuser2 10y ago

Yep. I find it baffling that people in the tech industry (who should know better) are enthusiastic about vehicle infotainment systems, Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, etc. Keep it simple. Power, a 3.5mm audio connector, and a windshield suction mount. Something they can't screw up too badly. I can easily buy a new smartphone every 2 years, but a car I'm going to hold on to for more like 10. Why would I want to be stuck with a 5-generation-old navigation/music player system when the car is still fine?

heeen2 10y ago
Carplay and android auto are solving this problem by running all the logic on the phone. Android auto is literally a h264 stream of content generated on the phone and a reverse stream of input events from the car display to the phone. All the updating will happen on the phone.
maxsilver 10y ago
> Why would I want to be stuck with a 5-generation-old navigation/music player system when the car is still fine? Why would you be? Isn't this a solved problem? When you want to upgrade your entertainment system, you head to somewhere like Crutchfield or Sonic or Best Buy and buy a new one to plug in. In many cars, it takes less time to install a new car infotainment unit than it takes to buy a new iPhone from a carrier store. (It's often cheaper too). For people afraid of wires, bored teens at Best Buy will install it all for you for an extra $70.
- jimbobimbo 10y ago
  What cars are we talking about? Modern cars integrate their entertainment system with a bunch of car-specific features, so it's no longer possible to swap "just the player" unit, like it was possible earlier.
  - maxsilver 10y ago
    I'm using a Toyota Yaris as an example. All recent models (including the current 2016 model) can be swapped out easily. With Electric cars / Hybrids, I can see issues since they integrate environmental controls and other stuff in to their radios. I suspect as electric cars become more common, entertainment companies will start building units with support for those features.
    - jimbobimbo 10y ago
      Interesting... Wouldn't think anybody still does it. It's already impossible to do in 5th-gen Camaros, for example (2010-2015). I wouldn't be surprised that other Chevy cars are the same way.

Raj123123 10y ago

My car getting hacked could potentially cause loss of life - my router or laptop can't so easily. However, some security can be had by enforcing physical-only updates. My router requires updates by ethernet cable (physical) so I would prefer my car to be the same - even if I have to bring it into a certified shop.

vvanders 10y ago

That is why Tesla is so awesome. They improve the entire fleet with each update and increase the brand value as a whole. It took Toyota a long time to build their reputation you'd think other manufactures would do the same WRT software.