3 ms·

I'm not really sure how you can say that but again enjoy your zeal induced tunnel view. You can't get any more free than the BSDL short of public domain. And ne

by X86BSD 10y ago

I'm not really sure how you can say that but again enjoy your zeal induced tunnel view. You can't get any more free than the BSDL short of public domain. And neither OS has any binary only parts or parts only available if you pay for them that I am aware of. So again i don't know how you view them as not having strong convictions about free software.

cyphar 10y ago
They have no issue with their work being used for proprietary software. That's the opposite of having strong convictions about free software. Sure, they provide a mostly free operating system but they allow other people to take that code and enslave users. And I say that knowing that Linus doesn't care about software freedom either, it's just a development model to him. But at least it uses the GPL, so any code I contribute will never be used to enslave users. "More free" is not the point. It's caring about users enough to not allow someone to take advantage of them by taking your work and giving them a proprietary version. That's what the GPL provides which the BSD doesn't.
- X86BSD 10y ago
  "They have no issue with their work being used..." Stop. Right there. Do not pass go do not collect $200 dollars. There is where you should have stopped. People who write code and release it under a BSDL want people to use their code. ALL people! Users and business. That is called freedom. You, whoever you may be, are free to use this code any way you see fit just don't sue me. The GPL on the other hand hates proprietary software. Good for you. But keep in mind in your induced hatred of proprietary software, that it is usually proprietary software that innovates and pushes things forward. Free software developers are great. But they only work generally on things of interest to them. They don't solve the "hard" problems unless someone pays them too. Take ZFS. After fourty years of fs development what does OS have for FS's? Linux has btrfs? BSD is still using ffs, hammer maybe. That's really... Sad. It took millions of dollars and I don't even know how many man hours for sun to create ZFS. Or the UI. Look at what Apple has had to spend and the time require to create the HIG and the UI for OS X. And yes I'm sure some OS jackasses are going to attempt to declare kde or gnome etc as equal or superior to the OS X UI. But that is plain flat out disingenuous. They are not even in the same ballpark. And the apple UI is far from perfect! And the OS UIs are light years behind it. The point is the BSDL encourages everyone to use it. We believe in true freedom. Will bad people do bad things with it? Probably, but that's inevitable in a FREE society. The GPL on the other hand tries to enforce it's imperialistic view of "freedom" by the barrel of a gun. Or if you don't want to share that flawed world view don't use our code. Which is fine, your free to hold that belief. But don't call it freedom and don't expect people who understand freedom not to call you on your bullshit either. The GPL is not free. It has stings attached to its use. Continuing to claim otherwise is disingenuous at best and outright lying at worst. And i object to the wording "it's caring about users enough to not allow someone to take advantage of them by taking your work and giving them a proprietary version." This is absolute nonsense and bullshit Linux/GPL folks have been using for 20 years. You cannot make bsd licensed code proprietary. Period. What you can make proprietary is your own added value code on top of it. The original unmodified code is still free, still under the BSDL, still available for a user to take and use as he sees fit. The original code doesn't magically disappear to a land of unicorns and leprechauns the second someone forks it and modifies it in a proprietary way. That's simply untrue and disingenuous to keep vomitting that line.
  - tremon 10y ago
    "They have no issue with their work being used..." Stop. Right there. No, you can't stop there. You can't quote half an assertion and then attack that. It's called a straw man, and a fairly obvious one.
    - X86BSD 10y ago
      First, yes, actually I can and I did. Second, you don't know what a straw man argument is. And should educate yourself before opening your mouth and looking 'ignit. Allow me to give you an example of a straw man argument. Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenseless by cutting military spending. That sir is a straw man. Which has nothing to do with what I said. Good day.

by X86BSD 10y ago

cyphar 10y ago

They have no issue with their work being used for proprietary software. That's the opposite of having strong convictions about free software. Sure, they provide a mostly free operating system but they allow other people to take that code and enslave users. And I say that knowing that Linus doesn't care about software freedom either, it's just a development model to him. But at least it uses the GPL, so any code I contribute will never be used to enslave users. "More free" is not the point. It's caring about users enough to not allow someone to take advantage of them by taking your work and giving them a proprietary version. That's what the GPL provides which the BSD doesn't.

X86BSD 10y ago
"They have no issue with their work being used..." Stop. Right there. Do not pass go do not collect $200 dollars. There is where you should have stopped. People who write code and release it under a BSDL want people to use their code. ALL people! Users and business. That is called freedom. You, whoever you may be, are free to use this code any way you see fit just don't sue me. The GPL on the other hand hates proprietary software. Good for you. But keep in mind in your induced hatred of proprietary software, that it is usually proprietary software that innovates and pushes things forward. Free software developers are great. But they only work generally on things of interest to them. They don't solve the "hard" problems unless someone pays them too. Take ZFS. After fourty years of fs development what does OS have for FS's? Linux has btrfs? BSD is still using ffs, hammer maybe. That's really... Sad. It took millions of dollars and I don't even know how many man hours for sun to create ZFS. Or the UI. Look at what Apple has had to spend and the time require to create the HIG and the UI for OS X. And yes I'm sure some OS jackasses are going to attempt to declare kde or gnome etc as equal or superior to the OS X UI. But that is plain flat out disingenuous. They are not even in the same ballpark. And the apple UI is far from perfect! And the OS UIs are light years behind it. The point is the BSDL encourages everyone to use it. We believe in true freedom. Will bad people do bad things with it? Probably, but that's inevitable in a FREE society. The GPL on the other hand tries to enforce it's imperialistic view of "freedom" by the barrel of a gun. Or if you don't want to share that flawed world view don't use our code. Which is fine, your free to hold that belief. But don't call it freedom and don't expect people who understand freedom not to call you on your bullshit either. The GPL is not free. It has stings attached to its use. Continuing to claim otherwise is disingenuous at best and outright lying at worst. And i object to the wording "it's caring about users enough to not allow someone to take advantage of them by taking your work and giving them a proprietary version." This is absolute nonsense and bullshit Linux/GPL folks have been using for 20 years. You cannot make bsd licensed code proprietary. Period. What you can make proprietary is your own added value code on top of it. The original unmodified code is still free, still under the BSDL, still available for a user to take and use as he sees fit. The original code doesn't magically disappear to a land of unicorns and leprechauns the second someone forks it and modifies it in a proprietary way. That's simply untrue and disingenuous to keep vomitting that line.
- tremon 10y ago
  "They have no issue with their work being used..." Stop. Right there. No, you can't stop there. You can't quote half an assertion and then attack that. It's called a straw man, and a fairly obvious one.
  - X86BSD 10y ago
    First, yes, actually I can and I did. Second, you don't know what a straw man argument is. And should educate yourself before opening your mouth and looking 'ignit. Allow me to give you an example of a straw man argument. Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenseless by cutting military spending. That sir is a straw man. Which has nothing to do with what I said. Good day.