8 ms·

I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Actually they do not need to be because ther

by vixen99 10y ago

I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. Discussion is over! This isn't the context for a rebuttal of your suggestion that unfounded accusations abound regarding criminality. Probably some are but you'd have to believe in a massive conspiracy to disregard all reports of let us say, rape and sexual offences committed by some of those immigrants. Do you really believe 'Sweden is the rape capital of Europe' is a far-right put-up job? I never thought they had that kind of clout.

illumen 10y ago
"""I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. Discussion is over! This isn't the context for a rebuttal of your suggestion that unfounded accusations abound regarding criminality. Probably some are but you'd have to believe in a massive conspiracy to disregard all reports of let us say, rape and sexual offences committed by some of those immigrants. Do you really believe 'Sweden is the rape capital of Europe' is a far-right put-up job? I never thought they had that kind of clout.""" It is with existing law that asylum seekers were taken in, and it is with current law that they are allowed to stay. The idea that it was because of 'the say-so of one woman' is ridiculous. Sweden had the highest rape rate in Europe BEFORE the immigrants started coming in. But this actually has to do with better reporting in that country. It's easy to check this fact yourself. Sweden and Germany have the two highest GDP growth rates in the last couple of quarters. They are also the two countries that did their duty, obeyed the law, and are now seeing the benefits. All official crime statistics prove that immigrants are committing less crime compared to locals. Also, more rapes happen by locals by far than by immigrants. More than 1500 immigrant houses have been attacked in Germany in the last year. You can easily check these facts. Want to change the law? Fine. Do it through non-violent means, or stop crying. Want to claim immigrants are rapist vermin? No. That's cowardly, and actually illegal in many European countries. Your comments are highly offensive and simply wrong. I'd suggest you check these facts out if you actually think they are true. If you're just spreading such hateful lies on purpose, then I hope someone reports you and you face the law. Because we live in a land of laws, and fascist bullshit hateful comments about people are not accepted.
- ZoeZoeBee 10y ago
  A few things. 1) Sweden has been importing North African and Middle Eastern people's since the early 1970s in a concerted effort to shore up their Demographic issues. https://swedenreport.org/immigration-3/ https://swedenreport.org/immigration-3/ 2) Sweden made it a crime to question the Immigration Policies of the Government. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4972/sweden-free-speech http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4972/sweden-free-speech 3) The last time they reported rapes by nationalities those born in a foreign country or born to a foreign parent accounted for over 70% of all rapes. http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/ http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-... 4) Growth rate averaging less than 1% over the last 2 years is nothing to crow about. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/gdp-growth http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/gdp-growth 5) The quickest way to put the fascists in power is to demonize the truth, because the truth does get out eventually Edit: These are all true it's quite Hacker Newsy to down vote the truth rather than provide a factual rebuttal, sources are there for you to read. And as far as fascism >Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe, influenced by national syndicalism. If you do not understand how attempting to quell factual conversations, results in the people searching for solutions, which results in the rise of the ultra-right wing, I invite you to look at who was voted seats in Germany in the most recent election and who's leading in Denmark, it will only grow. There are unintended consequences to the policies implemented by many of the EU governments which are now beginning to surface
  - JumpCrisscross 10y ago
    Provide sources, for both your statistics and the chain of causation between them, and learn what "fascist" means.
  - illumen 10y ago
    "The last time they reported rapes by nationalities those born in a foreign country or born to a foreign parent accounted for over 70% of all rapes." That is not a factual remark. according to Brå you quoted, immigrants were 5.5 times more likely to be CHARGED[edit: but not convicted, convictions have "little difference"] on reported rapes in Sweden. Not on the total of REPORTED rapes. There's around 190 convictions per year in Sweden compared to 6,700 reported. With such a low conviction rate, there is something terribly wrong. Another hypothesis that could be made is that the police are targeting immigrants more than locals. Or that immigrants can not get as good a legal defense. But these are just some hypothesis, I am not willing to jump to conclusions. Before all these people came begging for help after fleeing war, were you standing up for the thousands of women not getting justice every year in Sweden? Or is this only a new concern for women? Because the rates are about the same, and also thousands weren't getting justice. I guess it's just a strange coincidence that you haven't publicly been calling for justice. Hate speech is a crime, where you make false accusations about hundreds of thousands of people and call for violence. If you're saying that they are rapists, that might incite violence against innocent people. If what you are saying is actually true, then yes, you can say it, and it is not a crime. You can talk about statistics, but if you make up a figure (your 70%), and you say "accounted for over 70% of all rapes" as you did, then that is not the truth is it? Even your linked articles do not say they "accounted for 70% of all rapes". Out of the 81,300 asylum seekers in 2014 to Sweden, how many of those have been convicted of rape? If it was 2 people, then it is less than 0.0025%. Even if it was every single person convicted rape(190) in that year, that would be 0.23% It's not though, it's way less. I hope you see how silly it is to paint all those people with the same brush. Do you really believe stuff those articles talk about? Like how the gatestoneinstitute article you linked to says how "Sweden is also home to sizeable Muslim enclaves that have become off-limits to Swedish police". That's ridiculous.
matthewmacleod 10y ago
I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Obviously so. We see that all the time in the UK – there's a persistent anti-immigration sentiment among some parts of the population, but instead of seeking to understand, their views are immediately discounted as racist ramblings. In reality, such groups often really have genuine concerns about immigration, typically because it results in a displacement from work for some part of the population. Shouting at people about how they are racist isn't really constructive. Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. I'm sure you appreciate that this isn't true, and that Merkel isn't personally in charge of deciding who's allowed into Germany, so we probably don't have to discuss it further. Probably some are but you'd have to believe in a massive conspiracy to disregard all reports of let us say, rape and sexual offences committed by some of those immigrants There are absolutely legitimate reports of crimes among immigrant populations. That does not mean that immigrant populations are all criminals, nor does it mean that allowing immigration into the country is wrong. The problem is where we move from the question "how do we deal with issues caused by immigrant populations" to "send the unwashed deviants back to where they came from". I just don't see the latter view helping anybody.
dang 10y ago
You've been using HN exclusively to prosecute ideological agendas. That's not a legit use of this site, and we've asked you before to stop doing it. If you can't or won't stop, we're going to ban your account. This site is for collegial conversation, not for being blared at with bullhorns. Single-purpose accounts aren't welcome here to begin with, and certainly not ones whose single purpose is agitprop.
- pen2l 10y ago
  He doesn't appear to be a single-purpose account, though he does seem to have a propensity for commenting on political stories with strong emotions. What I find surprising is his account's old age. Early users generally don't espouse the sorts of viewpoints he seems to espouse.

by vixen99 10y ago

illumen 10y ago

"""I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. Discussion is over! This isn't the context for a rebuttal of your suggestion that unfounded accusations abound regarding criminality. Probably some are but you'd have to believe in a massive conspiracy to disregard all reports of let us say, rape and sexual offences committed by some of those immigrants. Do you really believe 'Sweden is the rape capital of Europe' is a far-right put-up job? I never thought they had that kind of clout.""" It is with existing law that asylum seekers were taken in, and it is with current law that they are allowed to stay. The idea that it was because of 'the say-so of one woman' is ridiculous. Sweden had the highest rape rate in Europe BEFORE the immigrants started coming in. But this actually has to do with better reporting in that country. It's easy to check this fact yourself. Sweden and Germany have the two highest GDP growth rates in the last couple of quarters. They are also the two countries that did their duty, obeyed the law, and are now seeing the benefits. All official crime statistics prove that immigrants are committing less crime compared to locals. Also, more rapes happen by locals by far than by immigrants. More than 1500 immigrant houses have been attacked in Germany in the last year. You can easily check these facts. Want to change the law? Fine. Do it through non-violent means, or stop crying. Want to claim immigrants are rapist vermin? No. That's cowardly, and actually illegal in many European countries. Your comments are highly offensive and simply wrong. I'd suggest you check these facts out if you actually think they are true. If you're just spreading such hateful lies on purpose, then I hope someone reports you and you face the law. Because we live in a land of laws, and fascist bullshit hateful comments about people are not accepted.

ZoeZoeBee 10y ago
A few things. 1) Sweden has been importing North African and Middle Eastern people's since the early 1970s in a concerted effort to shore up their Demographic issues. https://swedenreport.org/immigration-3/ https://swedenreport.org/immigration-3/ 2) Sweden made it a crime to question the Immigration Policies of the Government. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4972/sweden-free-speech http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4972/sweden-free-speech 3) The last time they reported rapes by nationalities those born in a foreign country or born to a foreign parent accounted for over 70% of all rapes. http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/ http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-... 4) Growth rate averaging less than 1% over the last 2 years is nothing to crow about. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/gdp-growth http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/gdp-growth 5) The quickest way to put the fascists in power is to demonize the truth, because the truth does get out eventually Edit: These are all true it's quite Hacker Newsy to down vote the truth rather than provide a factual rebuttal, sources are there for you to read. And as far as fascism >Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe, influenced by national syndicalism. If you do not understand how attempting to quell factual conversations, results in the people searching for solutions, which results in the rise of the ultra-right wing, I invite you to look at who was voted seats in Germany in the most recent election and who's leading in Denmark, it will only grow. There are unintended consequences to the policies implemented by many of the EU governments which are now beginning to surface
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  Provide sources, for both your statistics and the chain of causation between them, and learn what "fascist" means.
- illumen 10y ago
  "The last time they reported rapes by nationalities those born in a foreign country or born to a foreign parent accounted for over 70% of all rapes." That is not a factual remark. according to Brå you quoted, immigrants were 5.5 times more likely to be CHARGED[edit: but not convicted, convictions have "little difference"] on reported rapes in Sweden. Not on the total of REPORTED rapes. There's around 190 convictions per year in Sweden compared to 6,700 reported. With such a low conviction rate, there is something terribly wrong. Another hypothesis that could be made is that the police are targeting immigrants more than locals. Or that immigrants can not get as good a legal defense. But these are just some hypothesis, I am not willing to jump to conclusions. Before all these people came begging for help after fleeing war, were you standing up for the thousands of women not getting justice every year in Sweden? Or is this only a new concern for women? Because the rates are about the same, and also thousands weren't getting justice. I guess it's just a strange coincidence that you haven't publicly been calling for justice. Hate speech is a crime, where you make false accusations about hundreds of thousands of people and call for violence. If you're saying that they are rapists, that might incite violence against innocent people. If what you are saying is actually true, then yes, you can say it, and it is not a crime. You can talk about statistics, but if you make up a figure (your 70%), and you say "accounted for over 70% of all rapes" as you did, then that is not the truth is it? Even your linked articles do not say they "accounted for 70% of all rapes". Out of the 81,300 asylum seekers in 2014 to Sweden, how many of those have been convicted of rape? If it was 2 people, then it is less than 0.0025%. Even if it was every single person convicted rape(190) in that year, that would be 0.23% It's not though, it's way less. I hope you see how silly it is to paint all those people with the same brush. Do you really believe stuff those articles talk about? Like how the gatestoneinstitute article you linked to says how "Sweden is also home to sizeable Muslim enclaves that have become off-limits to Swedish police". That's ridiculous.

matthewmacleod 10y ago

I wonder if you think that pro-immigration movements can be inflamed, reflexive, unthinking and possibly offensive? Obviously so. We see that all the time in the UK – there's a persistent anti-immigration sentiment among some parts of the population, but instead of seeking to understand, their views are immediately discounted as racist ramblings. In reality, such groups often really have genuine concerns about immigration, typically because it results in a displacement from work for some part of the population. Shouting at people about how they are racist isn't really constructive. Actually they do not need to be because there's been a fait accompli in that at least one million immigrants have entered Germany on the basis of what appears to be the say-so of one woman. I'm sure you appreciate that this isn't true, and that Merkel isn't personally in charge of deciding who's allowed into Germany, so we probably don't have to discuss it further. Probably some are but you'd have to believe in a massive conspiracy to disregard all reports of let us say, rape and sexual offences committed by some of those immigrants There are absolutely legitimate reports of crimes among immigrant populations. That does not mean that immigrant populations are all criminals, nor does it mean that allowing immigration into the country is wrong. The problem is where we move from the question "how do we deal with issues caused by immigrant populations" to "send the unwashed deviants back to where they came from". I just don't see the latter view helping anybody.

dang 10y ago

You've been using HN exclusively to prosecute ideological agendas. That's not a legit use of this site, and we've asked you before to stop doing it. If you can't or won't stop, we're going to ban your account. This site is for collegial conversation, not for being blared at with bullhorns. Single-purpose accounts aren't welcome here to begin with, and certainly not ones whose single purpose is agitprop.

pen2l 10y ago
He doesn't appear to be a single-purpose account, though he does seem to have a propensity for commenting on political stories with strong emotions. What I find surprising is his account's old age. Early users generally don't espouse the sorts of viewpoints he seems to espouse.