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I think this is a nice demonstration of how well direct democracy can work. The argument against direct democracy (referendums on any subject any sizeable grou

by chvid 10y ago

I think this is a nice demonstration of how well direct democracy can work. The argument against direct democracy (referendums on any subject any sizeable group wants to put on vote) is that people will be economically irresponsible and vote themselves popular, expensive goodies with no regards of financing or cost. This shows otherwise.

NaliSauce 10y ago
What if I told you that it was the people who forced the government to be fiscally responsible: https://www.efv.admin.ch/efv/en/home/themen/finanzpolitik_grundlagen/schuldenbremse.html https://www.efv.admin.ch/efv/en/home/themen/finanzpolitik_gr... Many countries in Europe, including Switzerland, were ramping up debt. In Switzerland this was stopped by the people via a vote in 2001. In the eurozone it took the debt crisis.
patrickaljord 10y ago
> This shows otherwise. Switzerland is one the most highly educated and richest country on earth. Do you think the results of direct democracy would be equally responsible in Egypt, Syria or Bolivia? (I'm half-Syrian).
- nickik 10y ago
  Maybe it is the richest country because of direct democracy ...
  - saiya-jin 10y ago
    it's a mixed bag. I know in my home country (Slovakia), if they had same vote as Swiss few years back, people would vote for some ridiculous bad stuff. One example out of many - extending minimum paid vacation per year from 4 weeks to 6. Swiss population said NO, because of the financial consequences to employers. Now tell me, how many countries out there would end up with same result given this option? Quality attracts and breeds more quality. Somehow, they manage to pull it off for last 800 years, in one way or the other.
rs999gti 10y ago
Wait - direct democracy is good when it comes to social issues but bad when it comes to economic ones?
Houshalter 10y ago
The argument against direct democracy is that the population isn't very informed. Not necessarily that they are selfish. Even in the US, voters often tend to vote against their own self interest. E.g. people that stand to benefit from social programs often vote for conservatives against social programs.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  Could it be that those people think that more social programs would only be in their self-interest in the short term, and are taking a longer view (as appears to have just happened in Switzerland)? Why is anyone who votes against short-term self-interest automatically uninformed?
  - rayvd 10y ago
    This. However, I think the prevailing thinking will lean more and more towards voting for the free stuff. Someone else is paying for it, right?
lunchables 10y ago
I think it showed that 20-25% of people did exactly that. Probably correlates highly with the number of people that would have benefited from a direct income. I don't think this proved what you wanted to prove at all.

by chvid 10y ago

NaliSauce 10y ago

What if I told you that it was the people who forced the government to be fiscally responsible: https://www.efv.admin.ch/efv/en/home/themen/finanzpolitik_grundlagen/schuldenbremse.html https://www.efv.admin.ch/efv/en/home/themen/finanzpolitik_gr... Many countries in Europe, including Switzerland, were ramping up debt. In Switzerland this was stopped by the people via a vote in 2001. In the eurozone it took the debt crisis.

patrickaljord 10y ago

> This shows otherwise. Switzerland is one the most highly educated and richest country on earth. Do you think the results of direct democracy would be equally responsible in Egypt, Syria or Bolivia? (I'm half-Syrian).

nickik 10y ago
Maybe it is the richest country because of direct democracy ...
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  it's a mixed bag. I know in my home country (Slovakia), if they had same vote as Swiss few years back, people would vote for some ridiculous bad stuff. One example out of many - extending minimum paid vacation per year from 4 weeks to 6. Swiss population said NO, because of the financial consequences to employers. Now tell me, how many countries out there would end up with same result given this option? Quality attracts and breeds more quality. Somehow, they manage to pull it off for last 800 years, in one way or the other.

rs999gti 10y ago

Wait - direct democracy is good when it comes to social issues but bad when it comes to economic ones?

Houshalter 10y ago

The argument against direct democracy is that the population isn't very informed. Not necessarily that they are selfish. Even in the US, voters often tend to vote against their own self interest. E.g. people that stand to benefit from social programs often vote for conservatives against social programs.

Godel_unicode 10y ago
Could it be that those people think that more social programs would only be in their self-interest in the short term, and are taking a longer view (as appears to have just happened in Switzerland)? Why is anyone who votes against short-term self-interest automatically uninformed?
- rayvd 10y ago
  This. However, I think the prevailing thinking will lean more and more towards voting for the free stuff. Someone else is paying for it, right?

lunchables 10y ago

I think it showed that 20-25% of people did exactly that. Probably correlates highly with the number of people that would have benefited from a direct income. I don't think this proved what you wanted to prove at all.