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So, semver is great and all, but 0.0.x releases just look silly, in my opinion. I've never seen someone zero index the least significant column before though, w

So, semver is great and all, but 0.0.x releases just look silly, in my opinion. I've never seen someone zero index the least significant column before though, which makes it look even worse. Would people actually expect w piece of software marked as version 0.0.0 to be anything more than a placeholder?

stephenr 10y ago
0.x.x means pre-release to me (as in, sure - play with it, but don't fucking rely on it working). 0.0.0 is bizarre though.
- piotrkubisa 10y ago
  > "A pre-release version MAY be denoted by appending a hyphen and a series of dot separated identifiers immediately following the patch version. Identifiers MUST comprise only ASCII alphanumerics and hyphen [0-9A-Za-z-]" [1] I think they should use 0.0.1-pre instead of 0.0.0. The version 0.0.0 I would consider as "the development have not started yet". [1] http://semver.org/ http://semver.org/
  - stephenr 10y ago
    I think this advice is even more pertinent: > How should I deal with revisions in the 0.y.z initial development phase? > The simplest thing to do is start your initial development release at 0.1.0 and then increment the minor version for each subsequent release. Source: http://semver.org/#how-should-i-deal-with-revisions-in-the-0yz-initial-development-phase http://semver.org/#how-should-i-deal-with-revisions-in-the-0...
    - piotrkubisa 10y ago
      I don't get it why I got down-voted since I haven't suggested to use 0.0.1-pre. I have just pointed out that is weird to release version with only zeros - we usually take zero as point to "nothing, void" for non-techie folks (most of end-users). Oh If you would search SemVer repository on GitHub then there are some mentions about 0.0.0 [1]. It is interesting point of view but I prefer non-production versions ready as 0.x.y, where x is greater or equal to 1. So yes, the 0.1.0 is way more meaningful and I recommend it. [1] https://github.com/mojombo/semver/issues/221 https://github.com/mojombo/semver/issues/221
cornstalks 10y ago
It's funny that programmers treat zero-indexing arrays and things as normal (even "correct"), but suddenly zero-indexing versions is something wacky. What's weird to me is that 0.0.0 isn't more common in the developer world, given how frequently we start counting from 0.
- dunkelheit 10y ago
  I find 0.0.x versions wacky too. Version numbers (in contrast to array subscripts) are only useful in relation to previous version numbers. Ideally when a new version of the software I use comes out I can decide whether to upgrade only by comparing the version number with the one I use. E.g. in semver increased minor number means "new functionality added". So when 0.0.0 version comes out, what does it mean, compared to the absence of software? No functionality at all? :)
  - Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
    It means "don't use this yet".
  - cornstalks 10y ago
    What does 0.0.1 mean, compared to the absence of software? You can't compare 0.0.1 to anything if there's no other previous release. Starting at 0.0.1 is at least just as arbitrary as starting at 0.0.0, and your aversion to starting at 0.0.0 suggests you're making implicit assumptions about what the non-existent 0.0.0 means when starting at 0.0.1. But if 0.0.0 doesn't even exist then you can't really make any assumptions about it. At least 0.0.0 is clearly the very first version of something. Starting at 0.0.1 doesn't make clear that there isn't an earlier 0.0.0.
    - MatthewWilkes 10y ago
      For me, personally, 1.0.0 feels right as the first version. Compared to nothing, the first release is a major and there have been no minors. I guess I don't really see version numbers as indexes but as cardinals, hence why leading zeroes seem weird to me.
paxcoder 10y ago
I'm happy to see the 0.0.0 release - it means that I might just be using this some day. Few weeks ago, having not heard about the project for a while, I was afraid it had become vapourware.
graffitici 10y ago
Maybe it's because I come from a physics background, but 0.0.0 also seems to me as the version for the first thought of building something. So after one writes any amount of code, it should get incremented to 0.0.1 or something..
samuellb 10y ago
0.0.x = proof of concept? 0.1.x = first actually usable version (but may be buggy, missing features, etc.)
vertex-four 10y ago
I'd argue it is a placeholder, not a proper release - it's an announcement for interested people to look into it and join the project.
mortehu 10y ago
From the release notes: > This is a first alpha release Alpha typically means feature complete, but untested and thus unsuitable for general release. You don't need to use good-looking version numbers for that.
- grenoire 10y ago
  It's not even remotely close to being feature complete as of speaking.
  - voxic11 10y ago
    What major features are missing? It looks like everything is there.
- striking 10y ago
  Beta means what you think alpha means. Alpha means that some features are done, but others aren't, and the entire application is still subject to change.
- dtech 10y ago
  If that would be what alpha means, there's no way to indicate non-feature completeness...
zephyrfalcon 10y ago
To me, 0.x version numbers suggest that a project is not stable and can change in incompatible ways at any time... or be abandoned, even. 0.0.x, even more so. That said, some projects stay in 0.x territory for so long that this no longer applies. 0.0.0 is kind of weird... for some reason it suggests to me that zero lines of code have been written so far. (If there was code, the version number would have been higher.) But this is obviously not the case here. I do wonder what versions they used before this release? Then again, I know of at least one non-trivial project that used negative version numbers... I guess, in the end, it just means what the developers say it means.
unfunco 10y ago
Server recommends starting at 0.1.0 – starting at 0.0.0 essentially means (to me at least) that nothing has been written and nothing has been released. Initial versions (IMO) should begin with 0.1.0.

stephenr 10y ago

0.x.x means pre-release to me (as in, sure - play with it, but don't fucking rely on it working). 0.0.0 is bizarre though.

piotrkubisa 10y ago
> "A pre-release version MAY be denoted by appending a hyphen and a series of dot separated identifiers immediately following the patch version. Identifiers MUST comprise only ASCII alphanumerics and hyphen [0-9A-Za-z-]" [1] I think they should use 0.0.1-pre instead of 0.0.0. The version 0.0.0 I would consider as "the development have not started yet". [1] http://semver.org/ http://semver.org/
- stephenr 10y ago
  I think this advice is even more pertinent: > How should I deal with revisions in the 0.y.z initial development phase? > The simplest thing to do is start your initial development release at 0.1.0 and then increment the minor version for each subsequent release. Source: http://semver.org/#how-should-i-deal-with-revisions-in-the-0yz-initial-development-phase http://semver.org/#how-should-i-deal-with-revisions-in-the-0...
  - piotrkubisa 10y ago
    I don't get it why I got down-voted since I haven't suggested to use 0.0.1-pre. I have just pointed out that is weird to release version with only zeros - we usually take zero as point to "nothing, void" for non-techie folks (most of end-users). Oh If you would search SemVer repository on GitHub then there are some mentions about 0.0.0 [1]. It is interesting point of view but I prefer non-production versions ready as 0.x.y, where x is greater or equal to 1. So yes, the 0.1.0 is way more meaningful and I recommend it. [1] https://github.com/mojombo/semver/issues/221 https://github.com/mojombo/semver/issues/221

cornstalks 10y ago

It's funny that programmers treat zero-indexing arrays and things as normal (even "correct"), but suddenly zero-indexing versions is something wacky. What's weird to me is that 0.0.0 isn't more common in the developer world, given how frequently we start counting from 0.

dunkelheit 10y ago
I find 0.0.x versions wacky too. Version numbers (in contrast to array subscripts) are only useful in relation to previous version numbers. Ideally when a new version of the software I use comes out I can decide whether to upgrade only by comparing the version number with the one I use. E.g. in semver increased minor number means "new functionality added". So when 0.0.0 version comes out, what does it mean, compared to the absence of software? No functionality at all? :)
- Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
  It means "don't use this yet".
- cornstalks 10y ago
  What does 0.0.1 mean, compared to the absence of software? You can't compare 0.0.1 to anything if there's no other previous release. Starting at 0.0.1 is at least just as arbitrary as starting at 0.0.0, and your aversion to starting at 0.0.0 suggests you're making implicit assumptions about what the non-existent 0.0.0 means when starting at 0.0.1. But if 0.0.0 doesn't even exist then you can't really make any assumptions about it. At least 0.0.0 is clearly the very first version of something. Starting at 0.0.1 doesn't make clear that there isn't an earlier 0.0.0.
  - MatthewWilkes 10y ago
    For me, personally, 1.0.0 feels right as the first version. Compared to nothing, the first release is a major and there have been no minors. I guess I don't really see version numbers as indexes but as cardinals, hence why leading zeroes seem weird to me.

paxcoder 10y ago

I'm happy to see the 0.0.0 release - it means that I might just be using this some day. Few weeks ago, having not heard about the project for a while, I was afraid it had become vapourware.

graffitici 10y ago

Maybe it's because I come from a physics background, but 0.0.0 also seems to me as the version for the first thought of building something. So after one writes any amount of code, it should get incremented to 0.0.1 or something..

samuellb 10y ago

0.0.x = proof of concept? 0.1.x = first actually usable version (but may be buggy, missing features, etc.)

vertex-four 10y ago

I'd argue it is a placeholder, not a proper release - it's an announcement for interested people to look into it and join the project.

mortehu 10y ago

From the release notes: > This is a first alpha release Alpha typically means feature complete, but untested and thus unsuitable for general release. You don't need to use good-looking version numbers for that.

grenoire 10y ago
It's not even remotely close to being feature complete as of speaking.
- voxic11 10y ago
  What major features are missing? It looks like everything is there.
striking 10y ago
Beta means what you think alpha means. Alpha means that some features are done, but others aren't, and the entire application is still subject to change.
dtech 10y ago
If that would be what alpha means, there's no way to indicate non-feature completeness...

zephyrfalcon 10y ago

To me, 0.x version numbers suggest that a project is not stable and can change in incompatible ways at any time... or be abandoned, even. 0.0.x, even more so. That said, some projects stay in 0.x territory for so long that this no longer applies. 0.0.0 is kind of weird... for some reason it suggests to me that zero lines of code have been written so far. (If there was code, the version number would have been higher.) But this is obviously not the case here. I do wonder what versions they used before this release? Then again, I know of at least one non-trivial project that used negative version numbers... I guess, in the end, it just means what the developers say it means.

unfunco 10y ago

Server recommends starting at 0.1.0 – starting at 0.0.0 essentially means (to me at least) that nothing has been written and nothing has been released. Initial versions (IMO) should begin with 0.1.0.