4 ms·

That sort of baiting isn't necessary. I don't agree with Tim Bray, but I'm pretty damn sure he doesn't want to cause mass death. He simply thinks that his propo

by chroma 10y ago

That sort of baiting isn't necessary. I don't agree with Tim Bray, but I'm pretty damn sure he doesn't want to cause mass death. He simply thinks that his proposals would improve most people's wealth and well-being. At the very worst he's misguided, not malicious.

mafribe 10y ago
You are reducing a social problem to the question of individual intentions. Why is this an interesting option? Presumably nobody "want[s] to cause mass death". Arguing at the level of subjective intentions trivialises the complications of large-scale social change.
Grue3 10y ago
Nobody thinks they're a bad guy. However we have tried communism several times and it had inevitably and independently led to unimaginable atrocities. At this point ignorance is not an excuse.
- room271 10y ago
  He's not suggesting communism!
- svensken 10y ago
  When you look back on the history of communism, you sure do see a lot of red flags.
jwhitlark 10y ago
People always believe their form of extremism is justified. That's what makes it so dangerous. I think we put a little too much emphasis on people's intention, and not enough on the result of their actions.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >People always believe their form of extremism is justified. Of course, people always believe other people's moderate proposals are dangerous extremism. For instance, the FBI considered Martin Luther King Jr a dangerous extreme leftist to be spied-upon for the sake of national security, and of course, part of the reason MLKJr was actually a socialist was precisely because mid-century America's idea of "moderate" and "normal" was that prosperity for the white working-class could and should be purchased with the tortuous exploitation of the black and immigrant working classes, and that anyone who would run a Poor People's Campaign for all colors together was a dangerous extremist who had to die.
  - jwhitlark 10y ago
    I was trying to point out that he was describing himself as extreme, and when people say they're willing to go to extremes, I both take them at their word and get nervous.

by chroma 10y ago

mafribe 10y ago

You are reducing a social problem to the question of individual intentions. Why is this an interesting option? Presumably nobody "want[s] to cause mass death". Arguing at the level of subjective intentions trivialises the complications of large-scale social change.

Grue3 10y ago

Nobody thinks they're a bad guy. However we have tried communism several times and it had inevitably and independently led to unimaginable atrocities. At this point ignorance is not an excuse.

room271 10y ago
He's not suggesting communism!
svensken 10y ago
When you look back on the history of communism, you sure do see a lot of red flags.

jwhitlark 10y ago

People always believe their form of extremism is justified. That's what makes it so dangerous. I think we put a little too much emphasis on people's intention, and not enough on the result of their actions.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>People always believe their form of extremism is justified. Of course, people always believe other people's moderate proposals are dangerous extremism. For instance, the FBI considered Martin Luther King Jr a dangerous extreme leftist to be spied-upon for the sake of national security, and of course, part of the reason MLKJr was actually a socialist was precisely because mid-century America's idea of "moderate" and "normal" was that prosperity for the white working-class could and should be purchased with the tortuous exploitation of the black and immigrant working classes, and that anyone who would run a Poor People's Campaign for all colors together was a dangerous extremist who had to die.
- jwhitlark 10y ago
  I was trying to point out that he was describing himself as extreme, and when people say they're willing to go to extremes, I both take them at their word and get nervous.