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While this is an extremely well known charachter attack vector most publicly probably used on Julian Assange, as noted by tptacek this just means there will be

While this is an extremely well known charachter attack vector most publicly probably used on Julian Assange, as noted by tptacek this just means there will be more scrutiny of the accusation. I am not familiar with his exact contributions to Tor, but I would suspect that they aren't extremely dangerous to U.S. interests nor is he well known enough outside the security community to have his charachter asassinated in a fabricated potentially damaging (to the agency) way. I will assume he is innocent until proven guilty & it is possible or even probable he is innocent. However, given the degree this happens at companies it is totally possible this is simply a regular ambiguous he said she said which has happened in Gamergate, Tinder Github ect. Not that I mean to trivialize it, just to point out there is a large precedent for such things to occur naturally & given he worked with wikileaks it would probably be a dumb way to go about dissuading him, although it can't be ruled out until more info surfaces.

brador 10y ago
I agree with most of your points but one stands out. Tor is absolutely perceived as a threat to US national and general security. The silk road takedown put it vividly on radar. The goal of an operation like this would be to replace the non compliant actor with a compliant actor. In this case, remove the guy and replace him with someone willing to insert code to compromise the codebase. We don't know if that's what happened/is happening here, but we don't know it's not either. And I personally don't subscribe to the stupidity/malice law that's regularly thrown around here on HN.
- ikeboy 10y ago
  Wouldn't they stop funding it if that was the case?
- tptacek 10y ago
  Tor is a product of the Naval Research Laboratories and is continually funded by the US Government.
- cjbprime 10y ago
  One of the accusers (Andrea Shepard) is a current and veteran employee and developer of the Tor project itself. Another (Meredith Patterson) has been working in the open source crypto field for decades. To believe in the conspiracy of this being motivated by anti-Tor forces, you would have to widen the conspiracy to believe that Tor already has been compromised from the inside by its own employees for many years. Conspiracies don't get that big without bursting.
  - brador 10y ago
    There is a third possiblity - ADA/s-w. The accusers fit the stereotype in their interests. The alleged crime fits the ADA MO (sexual crime, he said she said no evidence, multiple victims coming out together, end goal of removal and replacement of a target, anonymous hit pieces (twitter, article, website, blog), police rarely notified). They have previously worked on similar projects with success (Github, Mozilla, Youtube). IMO the warning given to Linus last year gains further weight with this data point. If any of you work with anyone who fits the stereotype I recommend you take immediate steps to protect yourself against these accusations coming your way.
    - cjbprime 10y ago
      Okay, so you're moving from "I think it's a conspiracy of anti-Tor state forces!" to "I think it's a conspiracy of women Jacob worked with, who I will stereotype as feminists and therefore likely to make false rape allegations!". There are several remarkable things about these thoughts -- such as the idea that you've already decided there's a conspiracy and are just trying to pick which one. But I'll concentrate on the last point. Both Meredith Patterson ("Jake finally raped enough people that Tor as an organisation couldn't ignore it anymore.") and Andrea Shepard are literally anti-SJWs: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/07/social-justice-warriors-wreaking-havoc-in-open-source-software/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/07/social-justice-warr... http://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/indiegogo-campaign-funding-tech-conference-white-nationalist.html http://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/indiegogo-campaign-funding-... https://status451.com/2016/04/11/against-blacklists/ https://status451.com/2016/04/11/against-blacklists/ .. which raises the question, at least to me: what kind of prejudice did you apply to come to the ridiculous conclusion that the accusers "fit the stereotype" that they've so publicly criticized, other than that they are women?

brador 10y ago

I agree with most of your points but one stands out. Tor is absolutely perceived as a threat to US national and general security. The silk road takedown put it vividly on radar. The goal of an operation like this would be to replace the non compliant actor with a compliant actor. In this case, remove the guy and replace him with someone willing to insert code to compromise the codebase. We don't know if that's what happened/is happening here, but we don't know it's not either. And I personally don't subscribe to the stupidity/malice law that's regularly thrown around here on HN.

ikeboy 10y ago
Wouldn't they stop funding it if that was the case?
tptacek 10y ago
Tor is a product of the Naval Research Laboratories and is continually funded by the US Government.
cjbprime 10y ago
One of the accusers (Andrea Shepard) is a current and veteran employee and developer of the Tor project itself. Another (Meredith Patterson) has been working in the open source crypto field for decades. To believe in the conspiracy of this being motivated by anti-Tor forces, you would have to widen the conspiracy to believe that Tor already has been compromised from the inside by its own employees for many years. Conspiracies don't get that big without bursting.
- brador 10y ago
  There is a third possiblity - ADA/s-w. The accusers fit the stereotype in their interests. The alleged crime fits the ADA MO (sexual crime, he said she said no evidence, multiple victims coming out together, end goal of removal and replacement of a target, anonymous hit pieces (twitter, article, website, blog), police rarely notified). They have previously worked on similar projects with success (Github, Mozilla, Youtube). IMO the warning given to Linus last year gains further weight with this data point. If any of you work with anyone who fits the stereotype I recommend you take immediate steps to protect yourself against these accusations coming your way.
  - cjbprime 10y ago
    Okay, so you're moving from "I think it's a conspiracy of anti-Tor state forces!" to "I think it's a conspiracy of women Jacob worked with, who I will stereotype as feminists and therefore likely to make false rape allegations!". There are several remarkable things about these thoughts -- such as the idea that you've already decided there's a conspiracy and are just trying to pick which one. But I'll concentrate on the last point. Both Meredith Patterson ("Jake finally raped enough people that Tor as an organisation couldn't ignore it anymore.") and Andrea Shepard are literally anti-SJWs: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/07/social-justice-warriors-wreaking-havoc-in-open-source-software/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/07/social-justice-warr... http://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/indiegogo-campaign-funding-tech-conference-white-nationalist.html http://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/indiegogo-campaign-funding-... https://status451.com/2016/04/11/against-blacklists/ https://status451.com/2016/04/11/against-blacklists/ .. which raises the question, at least to me: what kind of prejudice did you apply to come to the ridiculous conclusion that the accusers "fit the stereotype" that they've so publicly criticized, other than that they are women?