5 ms·

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as possible on the latest version is a good thing from a platform perspective, but in reality it's such an irresponsible thing to do. It just lets people know that Microsoft are quite happy to reach in and break their stuff at any point. If anything it's persuaded the last few Windows holdouts in the office to switch to the Mac or Linux in short order.

yuhong 10y ago
Note that businesses will typically use Win10 Enterprise, often with WSUS.
- mavhc 10y ago
  Large businesses. It's the DIY small businesses that always have problems. They should switch to Chrome OS.
  - yuhong 10y ago
    This is a good time to mention that the minimum for volume licensing is only 5 copies.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      If the company only has 5-10 employees, it is pretty safe to assume they will not have a dedicated IT function who would worry for them about volume licensing, domain joined systems, etc. They likely just buy a laptop on Dell's website which comes with whatever version of the OS Dell tells them is good for them.
      - yuhong 10y ago
        Yea, I know many of them probably don't know this.
    - technion 10y ago
      It's still a hard sell. If a machine comes with Windows [Version] Home edition, there are business reasons to upgrade. If you buy a business machine with Professional edition, it already services all the business needs. I used to have good reason to push volume licensing when Enterprise was necessary to get Bitlocker.. but now there's very little business reason to do so.
      - yuhong 10y ago
        I think even with Volume Licensing, Enterprise is more expensive than Pro. But my point is that it is definitely possible to get it.
    - jasonjayr 10y ago
      Besides opening up a sales channel, is there SOMETHING that can explain what the right way to license Office + Windows in a 50-employee business? I've gotten by for SOOO long with samba + OSS, and our main stack is OSS, and have remained on the up + up with licensing. But with CAL's, Domain Controllers, File servers, etc, etc -- It seems to get so obnoxiously expensive fast --- for the only benefit of entrenching yourself to Microsoft tech? Given that I have to maintain a fleet of 40-50 Windows devices, Along with Samba 4, is there any good tech stack OSS or otherwise for managing all that?
      - yuhong 10y ago
        Yea, CALs are another mess altogether. I think some server products even use per-core licensing now.
Mithaldu 10y ago
Edit: Note that i am not disagreeing that MS is engaging in a dark pattern by opting-in users implicitly, and then only informing them about said opt-in having happened. The snide and snark in this post only came about because i realized rather suddenly what was actually happening, and how the misreporting and sensationalizing had skewed this whole thing in a way that the reporting helped literally nobody but people's click counters. Know that the upgrade is not unavoidable, and if you have friends who don't want it, tell them how they can avoid it. > The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay Go around and ask which of your colleagues closed this window without actually reading it: http://i.imgur.com/aWFX0vc.png http://i.imgur.com/aWFX0vc.png
- markrages 10y ago
  Yes, it's definitely the user's fault for closing a pop-up window. Those always contain essential information.
- anotherevan 10y ago
  Also ask them about how many bloody times prompts about upgrading have come up, again and again and again. People are not perfect robots that crunch data, fatigue sets in at some point, which is exactly what microsoft preyed on in this case. Crunching data is what we use computers for, or at least try to.
  - Mithaldu 10y ago
    Ok, then report "MS is using dark patterns", not "Windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing we could do to stop it". Those are both very serious failure modes, and both need to be adressed, but by obscuring which one is actually occurring you're doing nobody a favor.
    - anotherevan 10y ago
      Blaming the victim is doing nobody a favour either. The distinction between “windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing I could to to stop it [once it started]” and “microsoft used a bunch of shifty tricks to fool me into pressing a button that supposedly gave my consent, and then there was nothing I could do to stop it” becomes pretty moot, pretty fast. Yes, the latter is technically correct, and should be the main focus. But for the victims who are wondering what the fuck just happened, a snide, “did you read the dialogue before closing it?” isn’t helpful. It comes off as smug because because you consider yourself superior. If there was more nuance to your original comment, you probably should have made it in the first place. Your one-liner only came across as snark.
ams6110 10y ago
I thought business licenses for Windows didn't do the auto-upgrade?
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  As I understand it, you have to be on an enterprise installation to avoid the nagware, the sort that typically places hundreds of users under centralized group policy administration. Just buying a "Professional" or "Ultimate" edition license isn't enough.

yuhong 10y ago

Note that businesses will typically use Win10 Enterprise, often with WSUS.

mavhc 10y ago
Large businesses. It's the DIY small businesses that always have problems. They should switch to Chrome OS.
- yuhong 10y ago
  This is a good time to mention that the minimum for volume licensing is only 5 copies.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    If the company only has 5-10 employees, it is pretty safe to assume they will not have a dedicated IT function who would worry for them about volume licensing, domain joined systems, etc. They likely just buy a laptop on Dell's website which comes with whatever version of the OS Dell tells them is good for them.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      Yea, I know many of them probably don't know this.
  - technion 10y ago
    It's still a hard sell. If a machine comes with Windows [Version] Home edition, there are business reasons to upgrade. If you buy a business machine with Professional edition, it already services all the business needs. I used to have good reason to push volume licensing when Enterprise was necessary to get Bitlocker.. but now there's very little business reason to do so.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      I think even with Volume Licensing, Enterprise is more expensive than Pro. But my point is that it is definitely possible to get it.
  - jasonjayr 10y ago
    Besides opening up a sales channel, is there SOMETHING that can explain what the right way to license Office + Windows in a 50-employee business? I've gotten by for SOOO long with samba + OSS, and our main stack is OSS, and have remained on the up + up with licensing. But with CAL's, Domain Controllers, File servers, etc, etc -- It seems to get so obnoxiously expensive fast --- for the only benefit of entrenching yourself to Microsoft tech? Given that I have to maintain a fleet of 40-50 Windows devices, Along with Samba 4, is there any good tech stack OSS or otherwise for managing all that?
    - yuhong 10y ago
      Yea, CALs are another mess altogether. I think some server products even use per-core licensing now.

Mithaldu 10y ago

Edit: Note that i am not disagreeing that MS is engaging in a dark pattern by opting-in users implicitly, and then only informing them about said opt-in having happened. The snide and snark in this post only came about because i realized rather suddenly what was actually happening, and how the misreporting and sensationalizing had skewed this whole thing in a way that the reporting helped literally nobody but people's click counters. Know that the upgrade is not unavoidable, and if you have friends who don't want it, tell them how they can avoid it. > The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay Go around and ask which of your colleagues closed this window without actually reading it: http://i.imgur.com/aWFX0vc.png http://i.imgur.com/aWFX0vc.png

markrages 10y ago
Yes, it's definitely the user's fault for closing a pop-up window. Those always contain essential information.
anotherevan 10y ago
Also ask them about how many bloody times prompts about upgrading have come up, again and again and again. People are not perfect robots that crunch data, fatigue sets in at some point, which is exactly what microsoft preyed on in this case. Crunching data is what we use computers for, or at least try to.
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  Ok, then report "MS is using dark patterns", not "Windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing we could do to stop it". Those are both very serious failure modes, and both need to be adressed, but by obscuring which one is actually occurring you're doing nobody a favor.
  - anotherevan 10y ago
    Blaming the victim is doing nobody a favour either. The distinction between “windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing I could to to stop it [once it started]” and “microsoft used a bunch of shifty tricks to fool me into pressing a button that supposedly gave my consent, and then there was nothing I could do to stop it” becomes pretty moot, pretty fast. Yes, the latter is technically correct, and should be the main focus. But for the victims who are wondering what the fuck just happened, a snide, “did you read the dialogue before closing it?” isn’t helpful. It comes off as smug because because you consider yourself superior. If there was more nuance to your original comment, you probably should have made it in the first place. Your one-liner only came across as snark.

ams6110 10y ago

I thought business licenses for Windows didn't do the auto-upgrade?

CamperBob2 10y ago
As I understand it, you have to be on an enterprise installation to avoid the nagware, the sort that typically places hundreds of users under centralized group policy administration. Just buying a "Professional" or "Ultimate" edition license isn't enough.